Hello from CA

[joshp]

Hi all CNG enthusiasts !!!
I am planning to go into a CNG filling station business. I'd love to build one in my area near San Francisco, CA but it seems CNG use in the US is still very limited as compared to some other countries so I may consider have a station with dual gasoline/CNG use. Any advise on the cost of purchasing and installing CNG equipment on an existing gas station will be well appreciated. If there's a link with a list of suppliers & prices, that will be great too

Thanks,
Josh

[freedml]

Re: Hello from CA

I think it will be somewhat easier now since you can get immediate exposure and price advertising (free) from www.cngprices.com. Choosing a site depends on what kind of deal you can get (often low cost or free from a city or school district). Most of the stations even get government money to build, so definitely check into that.

[govdealsgirl]

Re: Hello from CA

Hi Josh!

My name is Molly and I work for GovDeals.com. We are an online auction site for government agencies to sell their surplus. Right now, the Capital Metropolitan Transportation Authority in Austin, TX has an entire CNG Fueling Station up for auction. This is a really good chance for someone to get this entire station for a fraction of the cost of a new one. If you are interested or would like some more information, please give me a call at 800.613.0156 ext 475.

[300mileclub]

Referring to the above post from Molly, the Capital Metropolitan Transportation Authority CNG station in Austin TX now being auctioned on GovDeals has been sitting unused for 8 years. Bryan Bargsley 512-369-6572 is given as the contact this time and could confirm if system has been used since 2008. An auction like this does not sell unless the RESERVE AMOUNT is reached. Two natural gas 400HP engines driving two Gemini compressors having inlet pressure 300 psi, used to fill nine ASME tubes. My guess as to a reserve price would be $100,000.

There are a number of experienced people on this forum with the expertise to dismantle and install this equipment. Auction ends in about 10 days (Aug 10). Eight years seems like a long time, but the Texas climate and the fact that all the plumbing has been sealed likely means there is no scale or rust inside. A system this size could time fill 80 to100 transit buses, again, somewhat of a guess.
(pictured is Pierce Transit Lakewood WA.)

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=139&acctid=8028

CNG_Pierce8.JPG

[300mileclub]

High bid on day before GovDeals auction ends for Austin CNG station a paltry $19K. The 9 ASME tubes are likely worth over $100K.

[300mileclub]

Winning bid on Capital Metropolitan Transportation Authority CNG Fueling Station in Austin, TX on GovDeals today was $30K. Five people placed bids. Twin CAT nat gas 400HP engines; Gemini tandem compressors; 9 ASME tubes were included and everything must be pulled from where it is installed at the bus yard.

[300mileclub]

Washington DC Airport Authority is auctioning off its twin compressor, 3 full & 3 half length ASME station in an auction that ends Sept 1 2016. Equipment was running up until last month and Airport Authority will dismantle equipment and load onto buyer-supplied trucks. Station is at 2604 S Clark St Arlington, VA. Among the items in the lot are two Ingersoll-Rand model 20H compressors, two Tulsa Gas Technologies dispensers, and 6 ASME tubes. (FLASHBACK: the Austin TX Metro CNG station, valued at over $1M, with 2 400HP compressors and 9 tubes went for $30K)

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=1180&acctid=4408

[300mileclub]

Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (MWAA) CNG station with 6 ASME tubes (3 full, 3 half length) and 2 Ingersoll-Rand compressor skids sold on GovDeals for $29,000. 2 bidders were in from the start and 9 more showed up on the last day. Price was at $7800 ten minutes from the end when five of the bidders put in 40 additional bids.

CNG_WADC_1.jpg CNG_WADC_2.JPG

[300mileclub]

Auction ends Oct 11 2016 for a CNG station at 610 Rand Mill Road Garner NC. This unit was used for the Garner City fleet but they got rid of their CNG vehicles when their fuel tanks expired. The three 22 ft ASME tubes can cost $20K-$50K used and never require retesting nor do they have expiration dates. Also consists of an Ingersoll compressor 20H40NGSX (40HP 20PSIG inlet) and a desiccant tank.

Installed in 2001 and operating until 2015, units like this have successfully been relocated to create a working CNG station in a new location. Developer can figure drawings, permits, construction and technicians to cost under $250,000. Usually a new dispenser is added, with card reader equipment, for around $75K. Buyer dismantles at site and hires crane plus big rig flatbed truck to haul away. Bidding for station is at $35 presently and additional spec sheets and contact info is in listing:

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=295&acctid=251

[300mileclub]

The auction ending Tuesday Oct 11 2016 11:30am PDT for a CNG station at 610 Rand Mill Road Garner NC presents an opportunity to install a working CNG station for a new location. If a public station is the goal, a $60K modern dispenser will need to be budgeted for. The other expense to plan for are the drawings, permit done by a licensed engineer in your area, and grading/concrete/piping construction at the new site. Storage tubes in this auction can cost $50K when bought from a used equipment dealer. They do not expire and do not need retesting, but the pressure relief device on each one is sent out for recalibration for about $400 ea.

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=295&acctid=251

Buyer will need to provide a certificate of liability insurance in an amount deemed sufficient by the Public Works Director. By the time the liability insurance is written, expect to have the policy indemnify the City of Garner from the crane, trucking, and mechanical companies you hire for the job. The 1993 station in the below photos had not operated for 5 years, but the station being offered in the auction was working in 2015.

The removal itself will require the hiring of a crane capable of lifting 21,000 lbs (three ASME tubes @ 6575 lb plus frame) and a big rig with a 52ft flat trailer. Listing says system is purged (empty - no fuel). In a situation like this, the electrical is shut off, after which the conduits and pipes are unbolted and/or cut. Mounting bolts which attach equipment to the slabs are cut with a rechargeable cutoff wheel tool. Take lots of pictures to help with reassembly later. The enclosure in the photos was also jacked up onto shims to be COMPLETELY SURE it was loose from the slab - since having the crane wait around if a problem crops up is very expensive. The jacks used were of the hydraulic piston, lever actuated type. All the dismantling tools were brought in with a pickup. No fork lift was needed.

The crane company will use spreader bars and D rings as needed. Equipment does not need to be tarped after loading, but any open pipes and conduits should be sealed with duct tape. No hazmat paperwork was needed for the job shown in the photos moved in the state of Oregon.

Hiring the contractor/technician to install a station like this has been done in Eugene OR, Oakland CA, Palmdale CA, Blythe CA, Deming NM, Las Vegas NV, Phoenix AZ, Rifle CO to name a few. Cngchat can be used to put the word out for any help needed to get station running. ALL THAT IS NEEDED IS THE INITIATIVE TO UNDERTAKE THE PROJECT. Bidding on this item seems to have been under the radar - it seems it will go for a song.


CNG_swan21.JPG CNG_swan_am6.JPG CNG_swan_am1.JPG CNG_swan_am3.JPG CNG_swan35.JPG

[300mileclub]

Final price for North Carolina CNG station was $16,810. Bidding was under $1000 for 20 days. Day before auction ended, bidding reached $1320. First thing, 8 am of last day, a $2240 bid was immediately doubled to $5500. Then, nothing happened until the final 20 minutes when four bidders put the auction over $16,000 - going into overtime. The winner and runner-up had submitted their initial bids in the last half hour.

Recent prices paid for CNG stations were:

Oct 2016 $ 16K Garner NC: 40HP Ingersoll Rand; 3 ASME tubes; dryer

Sep 2016 $ 29K Metro WA Airports: 2 40HP Ingersoll; 2 Tulsa Dispensers; 6 ASME tubes; dryer

Aug 2016 $ 30K Austin TX Transit: 2 CAT 400HP engines; 2 Gemini compressors; 9 ASME tubes

In an auction site such as GovDeals, a large bid may be submitted early. But only an amount $10 higher than the next higher bidder will be displayed. This proxy bidding process automatically raises that large bid to match the competing bids as they come in - eliminating the need to continue increasing a bid. If a bidder had put in $25,000 for the NC station, in the end, only an amount $10 over the next highest bid would have ended up being the final price. Nothing is ever known to online viewers who the winning bidder was because the identity is shown as an abbreviated character string.

[300mileclub]

CNG fast fill station in Garner NC (see above post) is back on auction after the previous winning bidder was not able to come up with the money. Prior winning bid was $17,000. Station includes 40HP Ingersoll Rand compressor; 3 ASME tubes; dryer and customer has to dismantle it at the site (also described above.) Auction ends 21 Nov 2016:

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=295&acctid=251

[300mileclub]

Though temps have dipped below freezing this month, forecast for Garner NC next week when CNG station will have to be dismantled are for lows in the 40s and sunny skies by weeks end. Auction ends Monday at Noon for the CNG station with 3 ASME tubes. The prior $17K winning bidder couldn't come up with the money which is why station is being offered again.

[300mileclub]

A local community college vocational training program, focused on alternative fuels, was bidding on this Oregon station - which is why I held off posting this. The station will be pulled from Medford Oregon, which has had two CNG stations and an LNG station open nearby in the past year. This 1998 150 SCFM IMW compressor with three 20 ft ASME tubes sold for $25,000. It came with an old Atlas dispenser which can sometimes take several starts to complete a fill, and parts have to be obtained from other used units.

The college lost the auction because its final bid only matched and did not exceed an earlier Florida winning bid - a number which is not known until a higher bid is entered. In this case, on PublicSurplus, there were two $25,000 bids when the time ended. And the auction awarded the auction to the oldest of the two - showing $25,000 as the winning price - and made up the number $24,900 to assign to the bid by the college as second place. The lesson is that the college could have guessed that the other bidder had selected a round number - like $25K - and should have bid $25,100. Screens were not refreshing properly as if the auction software was stopped while the auction office decided how to break the tie, so the AUCTION EXTENDED message did not display so a higher bid could have been offered.

http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=1794195

[300mileclub]

eBay auction gives cost of new CPI Industries ASME 24 foot tubes (states width to be 24 inch, but this may be frame and not tube diameter.) Rack of 3 sold for $75,000 in 2001 when new. Design Pressure: 5500 psi, Working Pressure: 5000 psi, 3 pack, 24' L x 7'6" H x 24" W, Capacity: approx. 36,621 scf @ 5000 psi.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNG-Storage-Tanks-CNG-Storage-Vessels-CNG-Tank-/182606396688?hash=item2a84307d10:g:qzoAAOSwuMZZNCr~