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Could Green Gasoline Impact CNG's Future?

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  • #1

    Could Green Gasoline Impact CNG's Future?

    Below is a link to an article in Scientific America about Virent, a company partnered with Royal Dutch Shell and Honda to develop gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel direct from biomass. The difference in this and many others out there is they are doing it now using a farely simple process that converts in days instead of weeks in a fermenter. Honda is testing it to determine if engines will need to be modified to burn it since it is 102 octane. If not, I see this has having an impact on development of more CNG capable vehicles as this technology would use the same distribution network and basically same vehicle technology as today and is totally carbon neutral. What do others think? or

    Building a Better Biofuel: A New Carbon-Neutral Approach Turns Carbohydrates into Hydrocarbons
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=turning-carbohydrates-into-hydrocarbons
    Turning plant sugars into gasoline with heat, pressure and catalysts


    Virent, Inc.
    http://www.virent.com/
    Virent is replacing crude oil by creating the chemicals and fuels the world demands using a wide range of naturally-occurring, renewable resources. Their patented technology features catalytic chemistry to convert plant-based sugars into a full range of products identical to those made from petroleum, including gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, and chemicals for plastics and fibers. The products are "drop-in" replacements that enable full utilization of existing logistics infrastructure without blending limitations.
    '12 Metallic Civic NG w/Navi
    '09 White Civic GX
    '06 White Bifuel Ridgeline
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    Tags: alternative fuel, green gasoline, virent
  • #2
    Re: Could Green Gasoline Impact CNG's Future?

    It will all depend on how much energy it takes to make it really. For fossil fuel all there is drilling (natural gas, petroleum) and the refining of the fuel. The process is a net positive from the raw material. There are many other fuel alternatives coming up, but one thing that you must keep in mind is how much energy it takes to make the fuel.

    For instance to make hydrogen using natural gas, how much natural (GGE) will it take to make one gallon of Hydrogen (GGE) will it take less gas to make hydrogen, probably not. The old rule of thermodynamic takes precedence.
    Not to be closed minded, but really how much energy does it take to make the diesel you are mentioning.

    Also see thermal depolymerization, magnegas, there are many others. Using wind or solar would be a good solution since it's renewable energy for running any process.
    __________________________________________________
    2014 Honda Civic NGV - Alabaster Silver
    2012 Honda Civic NGV - Polished Metal Metallic w/Nav
    2009 Honda Civic NGV - Green Tea Metallic - Literally a green car.

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    • #3
      Re: Could Green Gasoline Impact CNG's Future?

      They claim that it is energy neutral for the manufacurering process as they burn the non-usable biomass to drive the process.. Its the growing of the biomass and the energy required to produce it that offsets so much of the output. So the success will depend on what source of input produces the most product and how cheaply it can be produced. If it is just sowing grass and harvesting it, then that it relatively less energy intensive compared to growing a grain crop or corn and only being able to use the kernel requiring cleaning and separation of the grain. So far they are using crops high in sugars same as ethanol production. The big advantage I see is that it produces a product with more energy per volume than ethanol and can make it faster. Time will tell how it competes. The key being if they can make it work with a crop that doesn't compete with food crops as corn does.
      '12 Metallic Civic NG w/Navi
      '09 White Civic GX
      '06 White Bifuel Ridgeline
      FMQ 2-36

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      • #4
        Re: Could Green Gasoline Impact CNG's Future?

        I have never heard of Green Gas, but the idea sounds cool. 102 Octane is very nice also. I think a big part of people adopting it will actually be the price. Will it be priced the same as Gasoline or what? Just have to wait and see. CNG is a lot cheaper than gas and is one of the reasons why I bought my CNG vehicle.
        I think that it shouldn't compete with other food crops also. I did hear about using Seaweed ethanol. I think that would be a good source and it grows very fast.

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        • #5
          Re: Could Green Gasoline Impact CNG's Future?

          I keep coming back to methane creation as a more efficent process than is the process associate with gas or diesel. Bacteria everywhere just belches methane, and at the other end as well. Filter it, dry it, compress it if needed, and use it. The biggest problem with methane is the storage of it relative to space in cars. Finding space for big round tubes of pressurized gas isn't as design easy as is a low pressure tank of gas or diesel. Gas and Diesel are pretty energy rich related to the space required to store them, the energy to distill and create them seems to me to be very high and not ever discussed when efficencies are compaired. I'd be very interested in how much energy it really costs to create all of the sources we use everyday, all things included from mining to refining to transport to usage, and then at what CO2 impact per energy unit.. Apples to Apples..

          Oh yeh and then there's the national security big muddy mess component, how in the heck can this be calculated??

          Chris
          Last edited by SCChris; 05-05-2010, 11:50 AM.

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