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  • go farther

    came up with a idea today why could one not refridgerate a cng tank to o degrees and the 3600 whould drop to about 2400 psi than add more cng to bring the pressure back up to 3600 I beleave this would add about 1/3 range less the btus used to run the refrigeration could use the expanding gas to help cool now I know we would have to have pressure relief valves and a stack to vent exsese pressure like a lng or lox tank in case of failuer of the refrigeration ok let me have it wont be the first time I dreamed up a silly idea I am thinking of this for long trips not to use around town than one would just turn the the compresser off and run at abundent temp at home cowboy

  • #2
    Re: go farther

    anyone know the reqerments for stack higth to discharge into the air cowboy

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    • #3
      Re: go farther

      come on now someone has to think Im crazy or this might work dont be shy I wont be insulted lets hear from some of you if nothing else of why this wont work or will cowboy

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      • #4
        Re: go farther

        ok i won't lie i have thought of this also but i haven't thought of 0 degrees. that would take a lot of cooling here in oklahoma in the summer time that would be a 100 degree difference from the air temp. i was thinking on hot days it would be better at like 60-70 and in the winter it would be good around 0 but this is regional. don't know what would be better for a place in the north or east or west. also not sure it would help too much anyways it might take more power to do it than what you would benefit from.

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        • #5
          Re: go farther

          we are not trying to cool a large space something the size of a deep freeze with 2 tanks inside look under the deep freeze in your basement see the small compresser once you get it cold it wont take much power to hold it plus the drop in pressure would be trying to cool it self could we put the tank inside a vacume tank to stop heat transfer would this reduce the safe psi inside the fuel tank due to not haveing 14.5 lbs pushing in on it from the outside I am steady thinking on this one I think this can be done

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          • #6
            Re: go farther

            yeah i am not sure about the vacuum part. that could be hard on the tank because it would give the gas a higher volume. like a marshmallow in a vacuum it really increases in size so if it were to be done then it would be better to do in normal atmospheric pressure.

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            • #7
              Re: go farther

              Cowboy,
              Why don't you move to Utah? Deliberately putting yourself and the people around you at risk by overpressurizing your tanks for self-indulgent and self-rightious reasons, like a few more miles, is currently acceptable behavior up there. But hopefully not for long.
              Highend transit systems sense the actual tank temperature to assure a full temperature compensated fill, but the target is still 3,000 or 3,600psi.

              Your idea would also violate NFPA 52 by putting something in contact with the tank or by sealing off the tank not allowing for clearance, ventilation or drainage.
              Your Friendly Nazi Squirrel Administrator

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              • #8
                Re: go farther

                just buy a 10k psi h2 tank from lincoln and find a 10k compressor if you have enough $$$$ but maybe it could self combust at that psi. maybe use it to only 7.5k i,ll be watching the news, good luck

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                • #9
                  Re: go farther

                  hal you are missing my point by cooling the gas the pressure will stay below 3600 but hold more cubic feet so no overpressure and thank you for the point of venting and drainage had not thought of that and i did say popit valve and vent stack to avoid over pressure in case of cooling failer this is why I put this up so you all could shoot holes in it

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                  • #10
                    Re: go farther

                    Originally posted by scottfetsh View Post
                    just buy a 10k psi h2 tank from lincoln and find a 10k compressor if you have enough $$$$ but maybe it could self combust at that psi. maybe use it to only 7.5k i,ll be watching the news, good luck
                    self combust ? no air try to burn anything with just fuel wont work and you dont gain a whole lot after 3600 as it is already a dence vapor at that pressure and compression becomes pricy for the gain thanks for your thoughts

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                    • #11
                      Re: go farther

                      Cowboy,
                      Still sounds too complicated for the limited return. I'd be more apt to follow the path toward Adsorbed Natural Gas technology and really drop the pressure or increase storage volume at current pressure without the complications.
                      Just charcoal up some of those corncobs you boys have left over after makin your corn squeezins and stickem in your tank. LOL
                      Your Friendly Nazi Squirrel Administrator

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                      • #12
                        Re: go farther

                        now if we use our corn cobs for this what will we use in the out house and how do you think I come up with ideas like this it is the corn in a jar LOL cowboy

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                        • #13
                          Re: go farther

                          Hal, how much natural gas vapor is a gal of liquid natural gas equal to. Or I guess another way to ask is how many gge vapor is in one gal of LNG.

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                          • #14
                            Re: go farther

                            Originally posted by rgliedt View Post
                            Hal, how much natural gas vapor is a gal of liquid natural gas equal to. Or I guess another way to ask is how many gge vapor is in one gal of LNG.
                            One way to figure it might be to ask how much a gallon of LNG weighs? We know that on GGE is about 5.66 lbs. If you know how much a gallon of LNG weighs, you don't need to worry about the pressure of the CNG to do the conversion. Wikipedia says that "[t]he density of LNG is roughly 0.41 to 0.5 kg/L, depending on temperature, pressure and composition, compared to water at 1.0 kg/L." Somebody else can do the math. I'm going to bed.
                            Last edited by CNGLO; 12-09-2008, 01:39 AM. Reason: end quotation mark
                            _____________________________________
                            '12 Blue Mist Metallic Civic Natural Gas; '03 Galapagos Green Civic GX; '07 Alabaster White Civic GX

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                            • #15
                              Re: go farther

                              Also, the CNG cylinder will absorb heat and the resultant pressure will increase, depending on the initial tank content pressure/temperature, the ambient temperature/relative air density and humidity, and the rate of heat gain by a specific tank matrix.

                              Cooling a few degrees is not a problem, cooling by 100 degrees is. See the relative temperature pressure chart provided earlier.

                              If you want cool fuel, go to LNG (oops, shouldnt have opened that door!)

                              Franz

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