Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

hho browns gas

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • hho browns gas

    has anyone fooled with adding hho to the air stream on a cng car I dont know much about this looks like it would take more amps = btu to crack the water than one would get back burning hho or am I missing something just wondering I do think its worth looking at say what you think I have been called silly before cowboy

  • #2
    Re: hho browns gas

    well i am not sure if it would take more power or not because if you think about it your alternator is producing more power than what is needed anyways so if you tap into that supply to power the splittter, then it might do some good but then again i am not sure if it actually works if i can find one for around 100 dollars then i will try it on mine any more and i will have to keep wondering.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: hho browns gas

      Yes, that's how it works. It takes generated electricity that's being wasted to crack the water into usable fuel. So, it will only work for a moderate mileage increase. Beyond that, the engine would indeed have to use more fuel than you would get back in hho.
      02 GX
      01 GX
      03 Crown Vic
      06 GX
      Home Fueler

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: hho browns gas

        My thoughts are that the alternator could be replaced with a higher amp one. There is a patented step power for electrolysis that greatly increases the efficiency of the cracking. I doubt it is available for an application like this.

        I have read that baking soda or other chemical be added to the water to increase the conductivity. (Solar generation uses KOH.) I sure wouldn't want any of the chemical vapros getting into the engine.

        Browns gas is the impure electrolysis of water in that H2 and O is still mixed together as a gas. If the browns gas is sucked from the electrolyzer directly into the intake. Fine. Storage of this unstable gas is "Can we say BOMB?" extremely dangerous.

        Another point is that there is a reason H2 is still in the testing stages. It has the ability to permeate and alter the structure of metal. That is why H2 engines use SS valves and other special parts. I don't know if there is enough browns gas sucked into the engine to make a difference though.

        Also, IMHO the change in fuel composition will effect the electronics and timing so without adjustments to the engine are the emissions in check?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: hho browns gas

          I am told by Kevin Fern that the Impala is set up to automatically sense up
          to a 25% addition of hydrogen to the natural gas mix. The computer will
          calibrate the running of the engine to the gas mix.

          Comment


          • #6
            HCNG blend

            Kevin was referring to Hydrogen/CNG blended fuel which is available at some dispensers - most of them not available to the public. Kevin gets his blended fuel for prototyping at the hydrogen station in Phoenix. I have seen blend dispensers in Las Vegas (Ronemus) and as I recall Riverside, CA too.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: hho browns gas

              There is no waste electricity from an alternator. Either you are using the electricity or you are not. If there were waste electricity, this would be a short and so much electricity would go through that you would burn something out. If the alternator is not powering anything, the alternator will freely spin. Once you start adding "loads" to the alternator, the alternator will not spin as freely. Once you overload the alternator past the specifications, then all bets are off and at some time, the alternator could burn out.

              It is analogous to the natural gas lines in your house. You lines have 7" WC and a certain flow rate. your appliances need to be able to accept the 7" WC pressure (voltage) and you can't have too many appliances that would go over the flow rate (amps). Just as in natural gas lines in your house, if there is a leak, you don't want that leak and you need to plug it up. Likewise, there should not be any shorts in your car's electrical system.

              HHO system in your car will not work as it takes more amps to break the water apart than it you get back in BTU's.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: hho browns gas

                The only argument that makes sense is whether the alterntor needs more hp to operate at high vs low output levels. I have no data either way, but Id guess not. Most energy in an internal combustion engine is wasted through exhaust heat anyway.

                HHO makes the gasoline burn cleaner and more efficiently (claims 30-50% better miles per gallon, more in diesels), the engine does not run on HHO. The extra energy involves the H2-O gasses recombining into steam in the combustion chamber.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: hho browns gas

                  Sigh, here we go.

                  There has not been one confirmable, repeatable, certified laboratory test that shows that any of these so called HHO, Brown Gas, Aqua-heat, and so on, products work.

                  I dont mean anecdotal information by someone who built one in a back yard, that is hardly a laboratory controlled verifiable test.

                  For what its worth, the amount of electricity required to break the bond between hydrogen and oxygen from water is quite high, more than the btu's that can be recovered from burning. The slight amount of hydrogen recovered during the bubbling process can be measured in cubic inches per minute, not cubic feet per minute which would be required to offset any conventional fuel usage

                  There are lots of websites harping this stuff now, some claiming that the inventor has mysteriously disappeared, the safe where the papers were has been stolen, a mysterious partner stole the papers just prior to patenting, they were bought out by an oil company, they turned down 3 billion (yep, thats a BILLION) dollar offer to suppress the invention by Exxon, the inventor was falsely arrested for drugs, another one's pets were poisoned, and so on, and on.

                  Franz
                  Last edited by Franz; 12-01-2008, 09:58 AM. Reason: spelling

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: hho browns gas

                    I'm with Steve on this.

                    You cannot "create" energy here - the energy it takes to dissociate H2 from O2 comes ultimately from your crankshaft and is thus unavailable to turn your tires.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: hho browns gas

                      Don't you theoretical critics read before you pass judgment?

                      No one says that the car is supposed to run on HHO alone, HHO inclusion makes gasoline operation more efficient. Your assumption that HHO perpetual energy is obviously not possible, but that isn't the point and never has been. Lots of things can make gasoline operation more efficient- higher compression, lower intake temps, vapor injection, cleaner chambers, better fuel/air mixture, higher fuel BTU content, etc...

                      The HHO folks all say that the improvements are seen initially before the engine feedback loops relearn and modify mixtures. Electronic O2 sensor tweeking is needed to sustain the better mileage claims indefinitely.

                      It might be possible to run an auto on water, if a HHO generator can be scaled up enough- several single cylinder engines have worked fine in a lab on Brown's gas. It burns hot and fast with a lot of energy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: hho browns gas

                        Your statement implies that as long as the engine system is out of parameters you will get improved mileage. A leaner burn could improve mileage also but sacrifices other aspects. Is it the added fuel or a sleight of hand inside the engine?

                        "The HHO folks all say that the improvements are seen initially before the engine feedback loops relearn and modify mixtures. Electronic O2 sensor tweeking is needed to sustain the better mileage claims indefinitely."

                        I can envision the EPA licking their bloody chops already.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: hho browns gas

                          Maybe this is another way to look at it. It is a fact that it takes more energy to split the H2 from O than you get in return. So, the argument goes that you spend your money in a better way by making the engine more efficient instead of creating brown gas through hydrolysis because you spend too much energy creating the brown gas and if you have that much energy to waste, put that work into propelling the car.

                          Just remember, water is not fuel. Water is the result of burnt fuel (H2 in this case) just like ashes are the result of burnt wood.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: hho browns gas

                            Another wrong way to look at it. If the electricity isn't causing more fuel use, then this is a way to put a little of that free, unused power into the engine.
                            02 GX
                            01 GX
                            03 Crown Vic
                            06 GX
                            Home Fueler

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: hho browns gas

                              alright so i understand both sides here. one side is saying that you can't make enough power to split water and that it takes too much power from the engine. so go ahead and test this for a while, i have seen one advertised at ten amps. if this power drain is so severe that it hurts my mpg then how come my radio has a 15 amp fuse in it? does this mean that if i drive without my radio on that i will improve my mpg? i on the other hand have a 200 amp alternator on my truck that at most is using 75 amps. so go ahead and tell me that there is not enough power left over to split water and i will prove you wrong. considering there are kits for children that do this same thing with solar power.(go ahead and check it out) the highest voltage that i have seen a single panel of that put out is 5 volts! i mean for goodness sakes some flashlights have more power than that! and the other reason some of you people don't think this can work is that you think that only scientist can experiment. and only big companies can produce it. go ahead and check out how big ford and chevy were when they were just starting out. if people back then thought the same way as a lot of people on this forum do, then we would still be riding horses everyday. so how about you use your brain for something other than just burning oxygen and energy and think up something better!!!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X