Compresor on eBay

[cowboy]

just saw this on ebay small compresser gos off sunday night item#110311382897has oil in it so is better than fuelmaker 3cfm this aint mine just saw a thought I,d passit on it is to small for me cowboy

[cngmike]

Re: Compresor on eBay

This is an air compressor not a natural gas compressor. Do not use this compressor with natural gas if you value your self, family and neighbors.

[cnghal]

Re: Compresor on eBay

Wow!
This guy on Ebay is scary. I'd lay money on it, after wiring this mess together and plumbing it to his house gas supply with a garden hose, the words
"Here, hold my beer" and "Dude, check this out!" came from his garage as his neighbors slept quietly, unaware of thier impending doom.

[cowboy]

Re: Compresor on eBay

This is an air compressor not a natural gas compressor. Do not use this compressor with natural gas if you value your self, family and neighbors.

mike would please tell me the diferance in a air compresser and a cng compresser other than how the crankcase and any popoffs are vented and the controls and motor being spark proff and this one was 3 phase so no contacters in motor aint picking on you just wondering your thinking on this cowboy

[Amfuel]

Re: Compresor on eBay

What? Whats the difference? You gotta be kidding. Like night and day. Duh!

Phill is designed for 3600psi with 4 stage compression to accomplish that pressure. It also incrporates a blow down tank to relieve the pressure so you can disconnect the hose. Internal explosive gas sensors and self testing for leaks and detection shuts the machine down. Even the hose has to withstand 3600psi.

Fuel Maker did not get the American Gas Association certification as an appliance by accident. Safety is proven and redundant.

An air compressor is like 100psi? Design is for air and used to inflate tires and power nail guns. Run natural gas through it and the manufacturer will void the warranty!

As he runs for the bunker.

[cngmike]

Re: Compresor on eBay

To start off with all of the controls, switches and motor have to be intrinsically safe. This includes seal offs. The cooling fan and shroud should also be non sparking. Depending of the manufacture The rings will be of different compounds. The Crank seal should not vent to atmosphere. There should be a recovery tank. The compressor should be set up with inter stage traps that automatically drain them self to help with oil carryover. Many air compressors have small interstage leaks This is an unacceptable with a CNG compressor. In Ca the interstage relive vales need to be certified yearly. (This is a heavily debated requirement.) The requirements are set out by NFPA 52, ASME, OSHA and your local Fire Marshal.

I'm sure I'm missing somthing.

[cowboy]

Re: Compresor on eBay

I am refering to the the compresser it self not the controls and prime mover and I know the crankcase has to vent back to the pulse tank through a oil seperater as I have rebuilt many compressers and have found the parts to be the same for air and cng and all good compressers for any gas cool and condence the water out between stages as much heat is created from compression and air compressers dont stop at 100 lbs we have worked on some that ran at 8500 lbs with 5 and 6 stages I have not run in to the ring change what was the diferance in the materail? cowboy

[cnghal]

Re: Compresor on eBay

Cowboy,
First, we're not talking about putting a few band-aids, some duct tape and baling wire on an air compressor so it can "handle" compressing natural gas.
We're talking about re-engineering a piece of equipment that was meant to compress an inert gas (Nitrogen, 78% of of the composition of air) at a low pressure (8,500 psi after 5 or 6 stages, Please, that's only stage 2 on any good CNG compressor) and vent to atmosphere.
Here's the endgame or the wrench in your machine, Metallurgy. To be more specific, hydrogen embrittlement of steel ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement ). This should stop you dead in your tracks when you realize your now handling a fuel gas that is approximately 80% Hydrogen and your machine is 90+% steel and cast iron.
A simple changing of the rings and a vent pipe or two won't last long.

[cowboy]

Re: Compresor on eBay

Cowboy,
First, we're not talking about putting a few band-aids, some duct tape and baling wire on an air compressor so it can "handle" compressing natural gas.
We're talking about re-engineering a piece of equipment that was meant to compress an inert gas (Nitrogen, 78% of of the composition of air) at a low pressure (8,500 psi after 5 or 6 stages, Please, that's only stage 2 on any good CNG compressor) and vent to atmosphere.
Here's the endgame or the wrench in your machine, Metallurgy. To be more specific, hydrogen embrittlement of steel ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement ). This should stop you dead in your tracks when you realize your now handling a fuel gas that is approximately 80% Hydrogen and your machine is 90+% steel and cast iron.
A simple changing of the rings and a vent pipe or two won't last long.

I dont know how you are geting to 8500 psi with just two stages are you useing a very hi pressure sucshion ? our rule of thumb is 4 times in each stage now we all know you can get more than that out of a stage but at the cost of heat shortend valve life etc take care cowboy

[cnghal]

Re: Compresor on eBay

Cowboy,
The liquid-cooled Norwalk NQ-SV3 compressors I have in my shop take 15-50 psi suction and put out 220-320 psi on stage one, 900-1,100 psi on stage two and 3,600 psi on the discharge.
The air-cooled Ingersoll-Rand 05H25NG compressors I work on take a 5 psi suction and put out 64-68 psi on stage one, 285-350 psi on stage two, 1,175-1,225 psi on stage three and a discharge of 3,600-5,000 psi.

[cowboy]

Re: Compresor on eBay

Cowboy,
The liquid-cooled Norwalk NQ-SV3 compressors I have in my shop take 15-50 psi suction and put out 220-320 psi on stage one, 900-1,100 psi on stage two and 3,600 psi on the discharge.
The air-cooled Ingersoll-Rand 05H25NG compressors I work on take a 5 psi suction and put out 64-68 psi on stage one, 285-350 psi on stage two, 1,175-1,225 psi on stage three and a discharge of 3,600-5,000 psi.

you or I are missing something your second stage is only 1225psi so where did you get any good cng compresser would have 8500psi at the second stage? cowboy

[cngmike]

Re: Compresor on eBay

Cowboy,
The liquid-cooled Norwalk NQ-SV3 compressors I have in my shop take 15-50 psi suction and put out 220-320 psi on stage one, 900-1,100 psi on stage two and 3,600 psi on the discharge.
The air-cooled Ingersoll-Rand 05H25NG compressors I work on take a 5 psi suction and put out 64-68 psi on stage one, 285-350 psi on stage two, 1,175-1,225 psi on stage three and a discharge of 3,600-5,000 psi.

Are you using the Norwalk Charger and Ingersoll-Rand H25 as an example of Quality compressor or as a pain in the butt. I'e owned and operated both for my entire career. The IR's were put in service after the second oil embargo and was used to fuel the fleet to 2400 psi. In 1990 we upgraded the so we could use them for fast fill where they still in service. Though they are getting tired. The IR is a study in poor inter-cooling and would be my top choice in a time fill situations. The H20 should be avoided like the plague!

The Norwalk Charger was the first compressor we installed at our public fueling station in 1990. It was rebuilt 3 times and ran for up to 24 hours a day for long periods. Another example of piss poor inter-cooling. To top it off the oil carry over could drive a normal human mad. These babies are work horses that can drive you nuts because Norwalk can't or won't solve their spotty ring problem. To help with the oil carry over I installed 40' of finned tubing so before the high presser dryer rack the gas would be below 120 f. Every 100 hours 2 of the 4 cartridges would be changed every 100 hours not because of moisture but oil. Finally thru a 3rd. coalesor.

If I was going to hold up a compressor as a great example it would be a Sulzer. Until Greenfield was created it was the cadillac of CNG compressors. 10,000 hours of changing the oil rebuild and repeat. My second choice is the Arial. The only draw back with this compressor is the packager.

The one thing all these compressors have in common is they are all heavy duty industrial compressors that were ether built for CNG or specially modified to compress natural gas by the manufacture. The only compressor I would consider modifying is a Bauer. Of course they already do it for you.

[cnghal]

Re: Compressor on eBay

Guys,
Please let me apologize, I've been on some serious cold meds since after Thanksgiving and my mind and body are in seperate rooms.

Cowboy,
Sorry, I was thinking 850 psi, but reading and writing 8500.

Mike,
No, not a good example, just the two manuals I had on the shelf behind me at the time.
IRs are my last choice, but we have to service 5 of them anyway.
Our 4 Norwalk "Ground Pounders" will work well for small fleet packaged systems with maintenance contracts. And in the ANGI portable system we have.
We'll be using our 100-300 SCFM Arial system for our own station.

[cowboy]

Re: Compresor on eBay

ok now I know thought i wasnt reading right and if that is your worst mistake this week you got it made cowboy