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  • petroleum coke to clean electricity

    This is an older project, but it looks like another piece in the energy puzzle to me. Use what is essentially a low value by product (petroleum coke) available at most refineries, gassify it to make Hydrogen, scrub all carbon emissions as liquefied CO2 and pump this stream into old oilfields for storage or further recovery of oil while burning H2 to produce electricity with only water as an emission. Not too mention extra hydrogen for future fuel cell cars or truly clean electricity for you next electric car. To be built in Southern CA in Carson.

    www.cleanfleetreport.com/vault/carson.htm

    http://www.bpalternativenergy.com/li...en_carson.html
    Adrian

    Navy 2008 Civic GX (wife's)
    Silver 2012 Toyota Prius
    Grey 2012 Civic Natural Gas (mine)

  • #2
    Re: petroleum coke to clean electricity

    Any surplus hydrogen from the CHPP will be going into Air Product's local hydrogen pipeline, which feeds the local refineries. There are currently no hydrogen fueling stations on the pipeline, though the pipeline does connect to toyota's test facility in torrance.

    Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of this particular project, in that it is using what is essentially a dirty waste stream, and making it into a clean energy source. However, try not to tie fuel-cell cars into it, as it has nothing to do with the project currently. It is simply mentioned in most stories about it to grab the buzzword-sensetive audience.
    1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
    2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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    • #3
      Re: petroleum coke to clean electricity

      Have there been any large scale projects to actually sequester CO2? Do you get as much H2 energy out as you put into the process? I'm guessing 'no' to both crucial questions.
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      • #4
        Re: petroleum coke to clean electricity

        Originally posted by freedml View Post
        Have there been any large scale projects to actually sequester CO2? Do you get as much H2 energy out as you put into the process? I'm guessing 'no' to both crucial questions.
        Short answer, sort of, and yes.
        I'm not sure if any projects have been used to only commercially prove CO2 sequestration. I believe it is being used to enhance oil recovery in oil fields, so that it similar enough since it goes in and stays in. As far as getting the H2 out of coke, that is not new, and yes it is energy efficient.Check the web for syngas formation, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer-Tropsch_process ) which can be coupled with a variety of processes as a next step. Wikepedia has a simple explanation of syngas formation coupled with Fischer Tropsch. I think turn of the century lamps in cities ran off primitive syngas reactor produced H2 in many cities. In the coke to hydrogen to electricity project, once you have the hydrogen you just have to separate the CO, shift it to CO2 for easier recovery and that part of the process is done. Since they're dealing with petroleum coke, I'm sure there must be a loop for sulfur recovery, but hey, even that is worth money and better used in agriculture of pharmaceutical industries than as SO2 in our air. The idea is feasible. Permitting this in So Cal even given it's green approach, is probably a nightmare anyway. After all we can't burn CNG in engines if the conversion kits are not EPA approved. Europe just test for emissions...and imagine that.. they're cleaner when you burn CNG. We, on the other hand.....love to feed a mostly useless bureaucracy.
        Last edited by Adrian; 07-11-2008, 09:52 AM.
        Adrian

        Navy 2008 Civic GX (wife's)
        Silver 2012 Toyota Prius
        Grey 2012 Civic Natural Gas (mine)

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        • #5
          Re: petroleum coke to clean electricity

          Originally posted by freedml View Post
          Have there been any large scale projects to actually sequester CO2? Do you get as much H2 energy out as you put into the process? I'm guessing 'no' to both crucial questions.
          The CO2 sequestering is nothing complicated, the exhaust form the turbine is basically CO2, N2 and H2O. The H2O is knocked out and the CO2 is compressed and shot down apipeline to the oil fields, where it is pumped into the top of the wells, to push more oil out the bottom (as well, as out of the 'spongy' earth).
          1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
          2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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          • #6
            Re: petroleum coke to clean electricity

            Ok, I did about 2 minutes worth of research.

            It about doubles the cost of making the Hydrogen (which is already at least double the cost of just using Methane directly in an NGV).

            So, it fails the 'efficiency' question miserably.
            02 GX
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            • #7
              Re: petroleum coke to clean electricity

              Originally posted by freedml View Post
              Ok, I did about 2 minutes worth of research.

              It about doubles the cost of making the Hydrogen (which is already at least double the cost of just using Methane directly in an NGV).

              So, it fails the 'efficiency' question miserably.
              I'm curious how you worked that out.
              Adrian

              Navy 2008 Civic GX (wife's)
              Silver 2012 Toyota Prius
              Grey 2012 Civic Natural Gas (mine)

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              • #8
                Re: petroleum coke to clean electricity

                This is not designed to be a method of hydrogen production, it is waste management. I fail to see how you can calculate a cost of manufacturing when the input is waste with virtually no intrinsic value. Whether you believe it or not, this project is a win on all fronts. It eliminates a dirty waste stream, and with it makes electricity, enhances oil production, has zero pollution, and has a negative net operating cost. I'd challenge you to find another waste process that does that.
                1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
                2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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                • #9
                  Re: petroleum coke to clean electricity

                  Originally posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
                  This is not designed to be a method of hydrogen production, it is waste management. I fail to see how you can calculate a cost of manufacturing when the input is waste with virtually no intrinsic value. Whether you believe it or not, this project is a win on all fronts. It eliminates a dirty waste stream, and with it makes electricity, enhances oil production, has zero pollution, and has a negative net operating cost. I'd challenge you to find another waste process that does that.
                  There's actually a market for petroleum coke, it is made up of "fuel grade" (cheaper, used as fuel in other parts of the world) and "anode grade" (used in aluminum production) coke. Prices have recently gone up on both grades from what I hear, since I no longer follow this closely.
                  Adrian

                  Navy 2008 Civic GX (wife's)
                  Silver 2012 Toyota Prius
                  Grey 2012 Civic Natural Gas (mine)

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                  • #10
                    Re: petroleum coke to clean electricity

                    While I realize there is a use for coke, the supply FAR exceeds the demand, and there are storage facilities full to the brim with the stuff, with no clean way to get rid of it.
                    1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
                    2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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