McCain pro CNG

[p71]

WaPost
""Every year, the federal government buys upwards of 60,000 cars and other vehicles, not including military or law enforcement vehicles," McCain said as he campaigned with California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, a prominent GOP environmentalist. "From now on, we're going to make those civilian vehicles flex-fuel capable, plug-in hybrid, or cars fueled by clean natural gas."

[ieko]

Re: McCain pro CNG

I don't know if I'd say he was pro CNG as much as I'd say he is anti-corn ethanol.

[Larryect]

Re: McCain pro CNG

I saw that clip on the news. I was happy he is at least aware of CNG.

[cngacrossusa]

Re: McCain pro CNG

From what I've researched on McCain, I too would NOT say that he is outright proponent of cng. Maybe he knows of it, and would like his fellow Repub buddies of Pres Son-of-a-Bush to gouge the US consumer on ng like CE has been doing. I will believe it when I see it . . . hopefully I WON'T as the LAST thing we need in the White House is another Republican!!!

I'll give Obama the benefit of the doubt as I'm praying that he is logical level-headed person who knows what the normal American needs. We surely do NOT need a President that lets carmakers to keep churning out SUV's and pickups and makes NO EFFORT to make those vehicles bi-fuel for cng . . . or for that matter dedicated cng!!! During the last 8 years, that is exactly what Bush has done . . . NOTHING . . . or really SOMETHING when you consider that White House was involved with EPA decision to not let California force better mpg standards in California!!!

Give me CNG, or give me death!! Go ahead then give DEATH/Bankruptcy to Ford, GM, Dodge, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, etc. who are NOT selling any kind of cng vehicle in USA. As for me, I'll only buy Honda right now (they have Civic GX) and I'll vote Obama!!

[ieko]

Re: McCain pro CNG

Actually... Obama is very heavily tied to the corn ethanol industry and does not favor removing tarrifs from ethanol imports (like sugar cane ethanol from Brazil). This is of no surprise however because he is of course from Illinois, so with Obama being very much for ethanol it appears he has no interest in developing natural gas at all.

Additionally one should be concerned about checks & balances, with an entirely democrat controlled house, senate, and white house you're likely to see very little checks & balances that will lead to corruption. One only needs to look back at when the republicans had full control, or when the democrats had full control previously.

I should also note that car makers have begun making steps to cut truck & SUV production on their own, because of current market conditions being so bad. GM has been reported to be thinking about selling the Hummer brand and Ford has delayed the new F-150. Plants will also be closed or change priorities to manufacturing small cars, as it has become obvious to them that this is not a temporary shift in market. It's still not likely that you'll see anyone stepping up CNG vehicle production for the public as ethanol has goverment support and hybrids continue to sell.

[p71]

Re: McCain pro CNG

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/...5-5e9da01d08d4
Remarks By John McCain on Energy Security and Our National Security

June 23, 2008 - from his campaign website.

"My administration will issue a Clean Car Challenge to the automakers of America, in the form of a single and substantial tax credit based on the reduction of carbon emissions. For every automaker who can sell a zero-emissions car, we will commit a 5,000 dollar tax credit for each and every customer who buys that car. For other vehicles, whatever type they may be, the lower the carbon emissions, the higher the tax credit. And these large tax credits will be available to everyone -- not just to those who have an accountant to explain it to them."

By the way, what exactly is Obama's plan ?

[ieko]

Re: McCain pro CNG

His plan is ethanol, he wants to continue corn ethanol and move towards cellulosic ethanol. However, he has no intention of removing tarrifs from imported ethanol.

He also wants to increase regulations so that car companies must meet better MPG standards of 50mpg (average) by 2027. Obama opposes the idea of creating monetary incentives to make better batteries, but is for monetary incentives for cellulosic ethanol.

[p71]

Re: McCain pro CNG

Aren't there well documented problems with Ethanol production ? I seem to remember reading about the amount of water used to produce it as being environmentally unsustainable . Also isn't extremely corrosive, to the extent that distribution is limited to using truck transport instead of pipelines ?

[ieko]

Re: McCain pro CNG

Yeah, corn ethanol actually takes more energy to produce than it puts out, and is also blamed for increasing world food prices (which has led to riots in places like Mexico and Egypt) along with ours. So overall it's a mess, the EU acknowledged that corn ethanol was doing more harm than good and is/has taken steps to go back on their decision to support it.

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: McCain pro CNG

It's still not likely that you'll see anyone stepping up CNG vehicle production for the public as ethanol has goverment support and hybrids continue to sell.

I have a feeling that CNG will become econimacally sensable for the auto manufacturers if McCain comes in and closes the Ethanol money pit. The only reason the car makers are even going with ethanol, is that they get the government support, and it has very little cost of implementation. The reason they sell Hybrids, is because the public wants them, for cheaper driving, especially staring the current economic swings and oil prices in the face.

Doesn't CNG offer both of these? I'd wager it would be considerably cheaper to manufacture a CNG vehicle than a Hybrid. So even if they sold the CNG cars with the same markup that the Hybrids have, the car companies would start making MORE money on them.

Areas like SoCal and Utah have reached the critical mass for public fueling infrastructure that manufacturers COULD start sales of CNG vehicles to the public, especially BiFuel, and they will sell every one made, and make a decent profit. There will be startup costs of training their service techs (again), but that is why it should be a stepped geographic roll-out, just like the benchmark Honda demonstrated.

There are still a lot of public fleets running CNG without their stations being public. More cars on the road would make it cost effective for them to open up their stations. Then, once there are enough cars on the road, you will start to see smaller gas station franchises (well, the ones with enough real estate for compressors/tanks) start to add CNG to their product lines.

It is slowly happening... but... it all hinges on stopping the Ethanol train... Obama will NOT do this.

As another note... McCain also did not say he was backing Hydrogen (the next money-pit)... which is a personal happy note for me. Energy-wise, McCain is the ONLY option. This means that, in this energy driven economy, he's the ONLY economic option as well. Obama talks about change, but has mentioned nothing that will actually fix the root cause of the current recession (foreign oil). His idea of fixing the economy, is taking money from the people who are just getting by (middle-class, i.e. most of us, I'd wager), and giving more of it to those who can't make ends meet. This might help the poorest get by, but wouldn't it be better to end the recession in the first place?

[ieko]

Re: McCain pro CNG

I have a feeling that CNG will become econimacally sensable for the auto manufacturers if McCain comes in and closes the Ethanol money pit. The only reason the car makers are even going with ethanol, is that they get the government support, and it has very little cost of implementation. The reason they sell Hybrids, is because the public wants them, for cheaper driving, especially staring the current economic swings and oil prices in the face.

Doesn't CNG offer both of these? I'd wager it would be considerably cheaper to manufacture a CNG vehicle than a Hybrid. So even if they sold the CNG cars with the same markup that the Hybrids have, the car companies would start making MORE money on them.

Areas like SoCal and Utah have reached the critical mass for public fueling infrastructure that manufacturers COULD start sales of CNG vehicles to the public, especially BiFuel, and they will sell every one made, and make a decent profit. There will be startup costs of training their service techs (again), but that is why it should be a stepped geographic roll-out, just like the benchmark Honda demonstrated.

There are still a lot of public fleets running CNG without their stations being public. More cars on the road would make it cost effective for them to open up their stations. Then, once there are enough cars on the road, you will start to see smaller gas station franchises (well, the ones with enough real estate for compressors/tanks) start to add CNG to their product lines.

It is slowly happening... but... it all hinges on stopping the Ethanol train... Obama will NOT do this.

Yes, I agree. I should've probably put "as long as," instead of simply "as."

[ch4]

Re: McCain pro CNG

McCain wants oil and nukes.
His vision of alternate energy is 15 yrs away.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25372699/

for the faux news vs msnbc crowd it's a AP story.


The only reason he's against ethanol is because of the loopholes in the farm
and energy bill that give most of the incentives to huge MNCs
(multi-national-corporations) like ADM, Monsanto, Union Carbide, that
make the stuff.

Check out some of his speeches during the Iowa Caucuses

He wants to drill in ANWR and open up the entire coast of the United
States of America to oil drilling.

This is not a forward thinking man.

The only reason he mentioned CNG is cause Ar'nold was there ...
It was almost and after thought.

Now, if someone was to talk to Obama about CNG he just might listen.

The major pollitical problem w/ CNG is that EVERYONE but us associates it with crude oil. Please - someone with power tell the news to stop calling it Oil and Gas.

[Timon]

Re: McCain pro CNG

I'm all for nukes. Even many of the environmentalists are starting to realize that nukes are not bad for the environment especially if you reprocess the fuel and put it back into the reactor. The French have done for years knowing that it greatly reduces the waste problem.

Hydrogen is good for the future and using nukes is a good way to create it. I'd like to see a nuke out on some of the California channel islands. San Nicolas, San Clemente and maybe Santa Rosa Islands would be a good place to start. They would be easy to defend and are large enough for a good size installation.

[ch4]

Re: McCain pro CNG

I'm all for nukes. Even many of the environmentalists are starting to realize that nukes are not bad for the environment especially if you reprocess the fuel and put it back into the reactor. The French have done for years knowing that it greatly reduces the waste problem.

Hydrogen is good for the future and using nukes is a good way to create it. I'd like to see a nuke out on some of the California channel islands. San Nicolas, San Clemente and maybe Santa Rosa Islands would be a good place to start. They would be easy to defend and are large enough for a good size installation.

I'll let the environmentalists answer the big question. John, you don't like clean air and clean water?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmentalist

The point is it's "old-school" there is no thought about strange things like solar, wind, tidal, and cng.

To most of Americans CNG does not exist and building nukes is a HUGE capital layout that most electrical corps will not risk. I just don't see it happening.

What about Yucca Mtn?

And we do not have to do it.

The EU has better answers, why doesn't the SuperPower USA?
Because everyone is thinking in the '70s (Disco Sucks!)

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/no-to-new-nukes-go-wind

"In Germany, over 3,200 megawatts of wind power were installed in the last year alone, supplying electricity to more than 2 million households. In the EU, a massive 75,000 megawatts of wind capacity is expected to be online by 2010, tripling the current power and adding the equivalent electricity production of 14 large nuclear reactors."

See my thread about T. Boone Pickens and his brilliant ideas.

http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2358

[Curtis]

Re: McCain pro CNG

Ya'll have missed my pet peev, oil subsidies. Snatch them away and put that money into green energy developement, along with the ethanol dollars that are wasted on any non-cellulocic process. Scarily enough, the only candidate that mentioned killing oil subsidies was Hillary...ugh.

And I have a solution to the current oil crisis...
They sell us oil for $138 a barrel...
We sell them wheat for $7 a bushel.

I say we sell them wheat for $138 a bushel and if they don't like it...
They can eat their oil with a big juicy slab of camel rump steak.
Crisis ended!

Just one man's opinion.