Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

[ch4]

John requested I move my discussion to the Lounge. While there are usually 3 things I do not discuss in a Lounge (one of them is politics) I'm happy to start a new thread.
Please try and cite your sources so everyone can read for themselves.

There's a lot of discussion about high energy prices and the lack of alternative energy vision. My thesis is that Cheney and Bush are directly responsible.

Another member wrote it is because of Gore. However, there was no other data so while I find this interesting I don't know why.

Since I started the ranting I'll be the first to suggest a debate and not a flame-war. I apologize for my first and final barrage from the other thread.

Republicans and specifically the Bush - Cheney administration are responsible for our current energy mess.

* In 2001, before the Bush administration did almost anything else, Cheney met, in secret, with the Big Oil companies to dissuss the coming Bush administration's Energy policy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501842.html

[CNGfamily]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

I applaud the sentiment to include references to back up opinions. I will also caution folks that just because something is in writing, even from a "good" source, does not make it true... In my past I've been in a position to know the real story on a couple rare occasions. When I saw the news coverage, I was disgusted to find out how inaccurate the reporting really was.

[freedml]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

I for one vote to keep politics off this board. Join one that's out there or start your own!

[ch4]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

.. just because something is in writing, even from a "good" source, does not make it true...

I agree, multiple, conflicting, sources will dramatically strengthen your argument.
Brookings Institute, Cato Institute, the AEI (American Enterprise), Liberty Foundation (Jerry Falwell), NY Times, LA Times, Dallas Morning News, SL Trib, The Christian Science Monitor, etc. all good sources - way different perspectives.

And while I love wikipedia, you'll have to back it up with other sources if you want to be taken seriously.

[ajgiorgi]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

I for one vote to keep politics off this board. Join one that's out there or start your own!

I agree. ANARCHY! PUNK ROCK FOREVER! LOL!

[ch4]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

I for one vote to keep politics off this board. Join one that's out there or start your own!

OK... since we're in the Lounge I'll buy you a virtual Beer.
<virtual_beer> your choice </virtual_beer>

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

I look at it like this. Regardless of who's in office, this nation is driven by money. Over the past 30 years, gasoline has been relatively inexpensive (in fact, accounting for inflation, 1999 was actually the cheapest it's been since the 40s). This has left the only real reason to even look at alternative fuels to be environmental, which doens't fly for most the nation, as again.. money is what matters.

The current situation is caused by extremely high oil prices. Now regardless of what is the cause of the high, a good portion of it is simply a sharp increase in global demand, prompting OPEC and others to jack up their prices to maximize profit during the windfall.. money... The fastest method of alleviating this effect to the US market, is to increase our own supply, which the current administration has been trying to do for years, with the desire to tap more into Alaska. This has been blocked by the environmentalists. Sure, we can talk all we want here about what best to do, saying Hydrogen, or CNG, or EV's, all of these will be a very slow process to adopt. The quickest solution to the current crisis would be to just drill where we have our own oil. This would allow our economy to stabalize long enough to start a real effort to move to something else.

[Timon]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

I think this political issue is totally fair game for discussion in the lounge. After all it does directly effect alternative fuel issues.

That said just keep it civil.


Now for my $0.02 worth.

It's high time that whoever is in office needs to start a program for energy independence much like the moon program. We can get there within 10 years or maybe even less.

Right now the Democrats control congress but they spend most of their time blaming Bush and or the Republicans in general for all the problems rather than doing something about it. Hearing after hearing on the war or something else about Bush they don't like. Their acting like spoiled children rather than getting on with solving the real issues. I'm totally sick and tired of their bellyaching about Bush. It's time that they lead and put a plan together.

Now the Republicans are not off the hook either. They have not presented a good plan to get us off foreign oil. Many times they could have "Required" gas mileage be improved. They could have pushed for REAL alternative fuel research but they haven't. Heck if they spent just 10 or 15% of the war cost just think what could be done.

The one good point about high price gasoline is that the public is going to start demanding congress act. The question is will congress act or just stick their collective head in the sand as usual.

[ch4]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

I agree. ANARCHY! PUNK ROCK FOREVER! LOL!

I'm willing to discuss The Clash vs Johnny Rotten (Sex Pistols and P.I.L.) vs Ramones.
Did anyone here get to CBGB's?

New thread of course...

[ch4]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

One thing you must understand about the US Congress is it takes 60 votes to do ANYTHING. If you don't have 60 votes in the Senate you can fillibuster until everyone wants to go home. NOTE: There have been many more fillibusters in recent history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_senate

The filibuster is a tactic used to defeat bills and motions by prolonging debate indefinitely. A filibuster may entail long speeches, dilatory motions, and an extensive series of proposed amendments. The Senate may end a filibuster by invoking cloture. In most cases, cloture requires the support of three-fifths of the Senate

Republicans On Track For Record Number of Filibusters

http://uspolitics.about.com/b/2007/07/21/republicans-on-track-for-record-number-of-filibusters.htm

MSNBC hosted Breaux and Lott to defend oil and gas companies -- but failed to note they're lobbyists for them

http://mediamatters.org/items/200806100005?f=h_latest

NOTE how oil and gas get stuck together.

[rkcarguy]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

I just heard recently that the democrats had drafted a windfall tax, basically it was going to take a big bite of oil company profits over a certain amount. Well guess what, jackass veto'd it, and not a single republican would sign( if so many republicans will sign on it can overide the veto), so it died. Guess we know who they work for.
After traveling in Europe I think the US is in for hard times, we have not invested SQUAT in our transportation infrastructure and nearly all our commodites move by diesel. I was amazed that in other countries, you can land yourself within a block of home and work by taking the right series of electric trains and buses, no car required. The other thing that I really think needs to change(now hold your breath I think it sucks but it's really a solution) is that we need housing to be "alloted" according to where someone works. My city here is horrible, old retiree's squat on all the homes in town while the workers have to commute from bfe. In the end it all comes down to one problem-too many people.
Most of my family and I agree though, this is the most corrupt and worthless administration in history. When you see how they bury the technology it just burns me up.

[rkcarguy]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

That's what I was saying with "we didn't do squat in developing a transportation infrastructure". Under this administration we've only gone backwards though.
It's a whole change in attitide that's been brought on by this "role model" administration. It used to be that (fill in owner of whatever supplier of something everyone needs) made enough money and didn't need to charge any more. Now it's everyone **** everyone for everything you need.

[Timon]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

Does anyone really think that putting a "windfall tax" would not be passed along to the consumer? If you do then I have ocean view lots in Utah to sell.

You have to remember is that the US oil companies are small compared to the rest of the world and it's not the oil companies driving up the price it's the oil traders and speculators. The oil companies do profit from it but they don't control the price.

Who would get the "windfall tax"? Do you really want it going to the Federal Government? Now if the money was placed into a fund that congress could not touch, fat chance, and that money could only be use for energy independence, sure right, then I might consider it. We all know that would not happen. What would happen is that Congress would use it for their pet, I mean pork, projects.

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

And seriously though, how fair would that be..

CONGRESS (to oil companies): You're business has been doing so well as of late, that we think we are going to demand you give up an extra share of that money. Moreover, we are going to guarantee that the money we take from you will only be used for alternatives to you, to ensure you never make this much money again...

I still don't see the anemosity toward teh oil companies... "But they're making record profits!" Sure they are, they have the single most important commodity, why shouldn't they make the most money?

[taigacarol]

Re: Energy Politics: Democrats vs Republicans

I agree. ANARCHY! PUNK ROCK FOREVER! LOL!

Good Greif - that was 20+ years ago - thata get ya some results - this is the lounge - don't like the headliner - don't go in - lol!