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CNG Natural Gas or Biogas cars. The blunt truth is Electric cars winning. But why?

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  • #16
    Mike Roeth Jan 24, 2020 for ACTNews - No Doubt About It: The Future Is Electric

    For a time, trucking will be a multi-fuel industry, but in the end electricity will be the dominant power source for commercial vehicles . . as we move to a future zero-emission freight world, electric powered vehicles . . will dominate the marketplace. This will occur because of the efficiency of battery electric powertrains for transporting freight when viewed from well-to-wheel.

    Today the current technology diesel and natural gas engines can cover the entire variety of freight payloads and daily ranges when using renewable versions of the fuels. At this point, commercial battery electric vehicles are more suited to shorter regional and urban ranges with regenerative braking and with payloads somewhat below maximums due to the battery weight.

    Overall, the volume of production-level alternative fuel vehicles is very limited today. While many manufacturers are ramping up initial production lines for the 2020-2025 timeframe, significant production volumes are likely not feasible until the latter half of the decade, after designs have been through a few iterations based on field experience and market demand has increased substantially.

    https://www.act-news.com/news/no-dou...e-is-electric/

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    • #17
      Matthew Mercure for NGTNews June 25, 2020 - OCTA Board Approves Plan to Convert Fleet to Zero-Emission Technology

      The Orange County Transportation Authority (OCTA) board has approved a draft plan outlining how the agency will convert the OC Bus fleet to 100% zero-emission technology by 2040. OCTA has already gradually transitioned its fleet over the years, from diesel-burning buses to clean-burning renewable compressed natural gas (CNG) buses with near-zero-emission engines. The state has set a requirement to transition to complete zero-emission transit within the next 20 years.

      Testing both hydrogen fuel-cell and plug-in battery-electric buses will allow OCTA to collect valuable data and to determine which technology – or the best mix of technologies – to pursue moving forward. OCTA operates more than 500 buses in the regular OC Bus system across Orange County. For now, most of those buses run on CNG, but OCTA is working toward the goal of producing zero emissions.

      https://ngtnews.com/octa-board-appro...ion-technology

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      • #18
        Dani Teumou for ACTNews August 6, 2020 - What Can the Evolution of NGVs Teach Us about the Future of Electric Trucks?

        On June 27, the California Air Resources Board approved the Advanced Clean Truck (ACT) rule, which will require manufacturers of medium- and heavy-duty vehicles (MHDVs) to sell zero emission trucks in the state in steadily increasing percentages beginning in 2024. Many medium- and heavy-duty fleets operating today have already made one major transition, from gasoline and diesel to cleaner-burning natural gas.

        Talking with the fleets that made this transition, moving from diesel and gasoline to natural gas vehicles required significantly more investment, driver and mechanic education, trial-and-error and more collaboration alongside vehicle engineers and original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) than anyone could have anticipated. Establishing today’s robust NGV marketplace, where essentially any vehicle in any configuration a fleet might require is available, was a long road. It wasn’t until just six to nine years ago that the industry really began to deliver a consistent, technologically and environmentally superior natural gas product.

        To meet the operational demands of today’s diverse fleets, electric vehicles will have to undergo a similar evolution. Although the exact timeline is unknown, it will take years (possibly a decade or more) to get this next generation of advanced vehicle technology just right for every fleet’s needs. It has been 30 years since California first mandated sales of zero emission automobiles for the passenger vehicle market, and light-duty EVs are still struggling to secure widespread commercial acceptance.

        https://www.act-news.com/news/what-c...ectric-trucks/

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        • #19
          Government Fleet Nov 3, 2020 - Natural Gas Verses Battery Electric...What's More Green?

          Not only do RNG fueled refuse trucks outperform their electric counterparts when it comes to total NOx emission reductions well-to-wheel, they reduce more harmful CO2-equivalent greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in total than the battery electric alternative.

          Furthermore, the cost difference to upgrade New Jersey’s 10,000 truck fleet from diesel to cleaner technologies is substantial – only an estimated $350 million in incremental costs for NGVs while a complete battery electric fleet conversion could cost between $3.5 and $4.2 billion.

          The transition in New Jersey to cleaner natural gas refuse fleets is underway, with three-quarters of all New Jersey counties deploying natural gas refuse trucks already. Over 550 natural gas trucks are deployed in New Jersey today, serving 16 of the 21 counties in the state.

          https://www.truckinginfo.com/1012949...ats-more-green

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          • #20
            CNGVP Nov 21, 2020 - RNG Achieves First-Ever Carbon Negative Milestone

            Just released Q2 2020 data from the California Air Resources Board (CARB) has confirmed that the energy weighted carbon intensity (CI) value of California’s RNG in the Low Carbon Fuel Standard (LCFS) program was below zero—at -0.85 gCO2e/MJ. At that negative carbon intensity, an average natural gas vehicle fueled by California RNG will completely offset the GHG emissions of two diesel trucks.

            RNG from organic sources including dairy waste, wastewater treatment plants, food and green waste, landfills, and forest management—has some of the lowest carbon intensity rating of all fuels in the CARB LCFS program. RNG produced from dairy waste can have carbon intensity ratings that are 200 to 300 percent lower than even a battery electric vehicle powered by renewable energy such as solar or wind.

            Fleets across the country have been successfully using NGV's for more than two decades. Today, more than 175,000 natural gas vehicles are on U.S. roads. Near-zero natural gas trucks and buses are commercially available from more than 50 different vehicle manufacturers—including Autocar, Bluebird, El Dorado National, Freightliner, Gillig, Kenworth, Mack, Peterbilt, Thomas, Tico, Volvo and others. With this comes an expansive public fueling network.

            ABOUT CNGVP:
            The California Natural Gas Vehicle Partnership (CNGVP) is an alliance of air quality, transportation and energy agencies, vehicle and engine manufacturers, fuel providers, transit and refuse hauler associations interested in the deployment of near-zero emission NGV's throughout California. Learn more www.cngvp.org

            https://www.act-news.com/news/califo...ive-milestone/
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            • #21
              Bryan Preston for PJMedia Dec 01, 2020 - Musk: Electric Cars Will Require a Lot More Electric Power Than We Currently Have

              Tesla CEO Elon Musk said on Tuesday that electricity consumption will double if the world’s car fleets are electrified. Currently, electric cars are primarily powered by coal, natural gas, and nuclear. Renewables are growing but still account for less than 20% of U.S. electricity. Demand for metals such as copper, lithium and cobalt would skyrocket if countries around the world try to get their electric grids and transportation systems fully powered by renewable energy by 2050.

              https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politic...-have-n1183962

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              • #22
                Today I was asked to run electrical for 2 new hybrid Electric CNG trucks at our facility.

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                • #23
                  I think cng1961 was correct and succinct in his response - (my interpretation) dumb government (Biden Administration) decided they don't like it. It is like the CFL bulb. Government was saying we need to replace all incandescents with CFLs and LED technology quietly came along and smacked that idea down. Natural Gas makes a lot of sense environmentally since the gas is going to be produced regardless and reserves are not likely to remain trapped in the Earth forever. Methane is a potent green house gas so better converted to CO2 &H2O so the vegetation grows. No way we can rely on wind and solar alone unless we are ok with black/brown/no-way outs on a daily basis. Fusion energy is always a decade away for as long as I have been alive. Fission (nuclear) energy scares people. Coal & Oil - well we all know the story there. Geothermal/hydroelectric - will never ever meet demand. Until there is a technological breakthrough in energy - methane ain't that bad. I'm sure there are folks working on a Mr. Fusion in their basement but until they succeed (or blow themselves up) natural gas works for me.

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                  • #24
                    In the news:

                    . . the infrastructure package legislation includes $15 billion to build 500,000 charging stations across the country.

                    At $1M per station (high or low estimate - depending on who is building it), $15B would build 15,000 CNG stations. DOE reports on its afdc.energy.gov webstie that, as of 2020, nearly 1,000 public CNG and 70 LNG fueling stations are available in the United States.

                    The same webside says "tens of thousands of electric vehicle (EV) charging stations are available in the United States."
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                    • #25
                      Mike Coppock For the Tulsa World Jan 27, 2021 - CNG expansion has slowed with move toward electric cars

                      Currently, there are 941 public CNG stations in the U.S., up from 824 last year, according to the Department of Energy’s Alternative Fuels Data Center.

                      At 98, Oklahoma has the second highest number of public CNG stations in the country behind California’s 172. Many states have no CNG stations, while others have less than a dozen.

                      Love’s has 27 CNG stations primarily along Oklahoma’s Interstate 40 corridor. OnCue has 18 CNG stations, all in Oklahoma. A representative for Tulsa-based Quik- Trip says the convenience store chain no longer operates CNG stations.

                      So what happened?

                      High gas prices dropped and a CNG infrastructure failed to materialize for motorists. You can order a factory vehicle from a car maker that runs on electricity, but you can’t order a factory vehicle that runs on CNG.

                      For now, Sparq Natural Gas is focusing on vehicle fleet customers. With half the firm’s stations in Oklahoma, they plan on pacing expansion at four stations per year. For fleet owners, there are fuel cost savings to be found if you use CNG.

                      https://tulsaworld.com/business/ener...5947f870c.html
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                      • #26
                        Chris Galford for DEI July 2021 - EIA: United States produced lowest CO2 emissions since 1983

                        In 2020, the nation produced 4.6 billion metric tons (Bmt) of CO2, representing an 11 percent decrease from 2019 levels — the largest recorded annual plunge and the least CO2 emissions from energy in nearly 40 years.

                        1.7 Bmt of CO2 emissions came from natural gas consumption, representing that fuel’s largest share on record. Much of the natural gas emissions came from the electric power sector and industrial sector. 0.9 Bmt came from coal consumption, marking its lowest total amount and share since annual EIA analyses began in 1973.

                        While still responsible for about 36 percent of total U.S. energy-related CO2 emissions last year, the transportation sector saw its emissions drop around 15 percent from 2019 levels, as petroleum usage dropped off during the travel bans and lockdown orders rife throughout the year. Still, petroleum accounted for 97 percent of that sector’s CO2 emissions.

                        https://dailyenergyinsider.com/news/...ince-1983/?amp

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                        • #27
                          Straight Talk about CNG - Is CNG worth the investment?

                          Compressed natural gas (CNG) is about the half the cost of gasoline and diesel. Find out how Wisconsin businesses are saving money by adding CNG vehicles to their fleets (2014).

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWWaMmQd7ZQ
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                          • #28
                            Energy Vision 2 Nov 2021 - The Refuse Revolution

                            Page 2: Battery electric trucks have also emerged recently as an exciting option. They are now being piloted by public and private refuse fleets in several locations, but they do not yet have the operational track record of success necessary for widespread adoption and they are considerably more expensive than diesel or natural gas models.

                            Page 7: RNG is a double climate-change-winner. First, its production involves trapping and refining the methane biogases that are emitted by decomposing organic wastes. Second, RNG fuel can be used to replace high-carbon diesel fuel in heavy-duty vehicles. On a lifecycle basis, RNG fuel cuts greenhouse gases (GHGs) from 50% up to 300% relative to diesel. CNG trucks cost about $35,000 more than diesel models at present, but the lower costs of the fuel and maintenance over their lifetime helps recoup this premium.

                            Page 7: There are now more than 200 facilities producing RNG (equivalent to 500 million gallons of fuel) from organic waste in the US, up from just 40 in 2016. Today, approximately 50,000 trucks and buses are already powered by RNG fuel; close to 10,000 of those are refuse trucks. Conservative estimates indicate that RNG production potential could reduce petroleum demand by approximately 10 billion gallons per year, enough fuel for every urban truck and bus fleet in America.

                            Page 18: Graph gms CO2/mile:

                            2674 Diesel
                            2540 Natural gas
                            1143 Battery Electric
                            812 Renewable diesel
                            -1132 RNG

                            https://energy-vision.org/wp-content...Revolution.pdf
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