Sap-sucking Hybrids at Santa Monica "Alt Car" Expo . . . . . arrggh

[KSneedsCNG]

Watching TV show Cars.TV and it highlighted Santa Monica, CA "Alt Car" expo (probably last year) - - - here are some "low-lights" - - - arrrggh:

a) new brand CODA all electric car - -- range from 100 to 125 miles. Wikipedia says this is China known as Hafei Saibao Electric Motor Car. Why are we allowing this car in country to grab electric car tax credits??
b) 13 universities wasting DOE grant money to improve Chevy Malibu hybrid- - - what[ever] . . .Why can't GM do this themselves?? No mention of Chevy Volt the other crap 40 mile range $40K car. No mention of better solution the bi-fuel Impala . . . what's up with that??
c) Toyota EV RAV4 - - partnership with Tesla using their battery pack (only 22 months to develop . . . ie really re-introduce) - - but kicker is the WHOPPER price of $50,000 . . . the "ELIGIBLE for $10K Federal tax credit" . . . . . arrrggh. What a waste of money!! Touting their California "charging tour" where they show off RAV4EV across California. What a stinking MONEY GRAB!! Toyota can quickly bring out hybrids or EV's but continue to deny production of Camry CNG - - - blasphemy, stinking Toyota is greedy pig!!
d) Nissan Leaf -- - has 14K cars in USA and 35K electric cars worldwide
e) Ford C-max hybrid - - - pitiful rating of 47 mpg . . . . why bother?? Should just produce OEM cng Fusion or have replacement OEM for the cancelled cng Crown Vic!!
f) Honda Accord plug-in hybrid - - - overall range of 500 miles (ie on gasoline) with estimated equivalent mpg 100 but only 10 to 15 miles all electric. Claimed recharge in 1 hr w/ 240 volt (ie big whoopee for 10 to 15 miles!!!!). Greatest car sold in USA for environment (ie SULEV Civic natural gas / Civic GX) barely got mention along with hydrogen powered Clarity . . . . . arrggh, more blasphemy!! How can this really be a "Alt Car" expo and not highlight the best car available (Civic GX)?? Why can't Honda extend range on Civic NG with larger cng tank??

Overall, gotta say . . . . CRAP, CRAP, CRAP !! Everything really just a re-hash of what was already available. Only exception was the CODA new brand of electric car - - curious about price and how/why this company developed??? All the others seem more like well-timed FAD to sap suck the Federal tax credits for electrics . . . no real technology breakthroughs.

Any REAL alternative fuel promoters (ie CNGchat members) attend this Santa Monica "Alt Car" expo so that CNG vehicles could get more exposure???? Comments??

[siai47]

Re: Sap-sucking Hybrids at Santa Monica "Alt Car" Expo . . . . . arrggh

I have owned two of the vehicles mentioned in the show and still own one. Some are newer then others not re-hashes of what was already available. The CODA has been around as long as anything you mentioned here---however it never really got going with a lot of false starts. Things like the Fisker and other "green" failures certainly weren't mentioned. I have never heard of a $10K Federal tax credit, it is $7.5K--they are most likely adding in some California and/or local credits to come up with that number. That being said, there is a place for vehicles like these along with other alternative fuel vehicles. It appears the problem you have with this (and I mostly agree) is Government involvement by using taxpayer money to provide incentives to nudge people into purchasing some product that they may or may not want or to provide for the development of it. Remember this involvement was and is also found to some extent in the CNG sector. How would you feel if these incentives were applied to CNG vehicles? Would it make you feel better about them if they were applied to some technology you like instead of something you don't? Unfortunately, we are moving away from free market ideals to Government incentives to motivate changes in our lifestyles. When ever I made a business decision that had Government involvement (i.e. money) I always looked at it to see if the project could stand on it's own without the incentives. If it couldn't, I would walk away.

[KSneedsCNG]

Re: Sap-sucking Hybrids at Santa Monica "Alt Car" Expo . . . . . arrggh

Yeah, maybe I'm a bit harsh . . . . but hey Toyota has had since 2001 to reintroduce the Camry cng and done nothing!! I'd cut them some slack if they did 3 things (reintroduce Camry cng, sell OEM cng bi-fuel Tundra, and offer cng powered Prius) . . . . not going to happen.

The $10K credit was the sales talk by the Toyota spokesperson in the TV clip. You're likely right on the $7.5K credit plus any California add-on. I didn't fact check it. I'd put cumulative limit on manufacturer-specific tax credits for electric (especially when they refuse to implement cng) . . . . Toyota has milked plenty with over 500K sales of Prius.

Just like cng has knock on limited range (say 300 to 400 minimum), gotta knock electrics if they can only do range of 15 to 125 miles.

[Lakewood90712]

Re: Sap-sucking Hybrids at Santa Monica "Alt Car" Expo . . . . . arrggh

"Why are we allowing this car in country to grab electric car tax credits??"

Because foreign governments are allowed to lobby congress and spend unlimited money on pac's to influence OUR government. This issue was fought about 15 years ago , and the US Supreme court ruled anyone, including powerfull foreign governments , can do this .
I think it stinks.

[scott]

Re: Sap-sucking Hybrids at Santa Monica "Alt Car" Expo . . . . . arrggh

I leased a car two weeks ago. There was a $7,500 fed inducement, some factory incentives, and I have applied for $1,500 from the state of California. The government is encouraging the sale of alt fuel vehicles. I would not have leased the car otherwise.