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  • Carpool lane for older hybrids until July 2011.

    Carpool lane until 2015 for the Leaf and the Volt. In addition, it looks like the existing yellow sticker carpool access is extended until July 2011.

    http://sacramento.bizjournals.com/sa...9/daily35.html

    Schwarzenegger has 12 days to sign or veto the bill.

  • #2
    Re: Carpool lane for older hybrids until July 2011.

    Yeah. I think you guys need to write the Governator and ask him to veto this. From a EV perspective, I'm encouraging my EV homies to do likewise. Do we really want Hybrids in the HOV lanes for seven more months? Do we really want the Volt in the HOV lane (which is really what SB535 is ALL about). Here is my email to him. Feel free to copy it verbatim:

    Governor Schwarzenegger, I urge you to veto SB535 (Yee) when the comes across your desk.

    AB1500 (Lieu), already signed into law by your good self a few weeks ago, already meets the ongoing goals of Californians - moving us towards a cleaner environment using vehicles powered by Natural Gas, pure Electric power, and (eventually) Hydrogen Fuel Cells, and by eliminating all non-ILEV vehicles (gasoline powered hybrids) from the HOV decal program.

    SB535 is simply another attempt by a corporate interest (GM) to move their narrow agenda forward - in this case allowing the Chevy Volt HOV lane access.

    The Volt is nothing better than a series hybrid. While it claims to be cleaner by virtue of a larger battery pack than a normal hybrid, like the Toyota Prius, it is expected that it will spend much of the time recharging the battery pack with gasoline, especially over distances that would typically have its drivers using the freeway.

    With best Regards,
    etc.......
    Of course, I have my own agenda to push here - I'll be the recipient of a Nissan Leaf EV by early next year. But you gotta admit, the carpool lane would be much better off in the near term with the yellow stickers gone as soon as possible!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Carpool lane for older hybrids until July 2011.

      Originally posted by mwalsh View Post
      Yeah. I think you guys need to write the Governator and ask him to veto this. From a EV perspective, I'm encouraging my EV homies to do likewise. Do we really want Hybrids in the HOV lanes for seven more months? Do we really want the Volt in the HOV lane (which is really what SB535 is ALL about). Here is my email to him. Feel free to copy it verbatim:



      Of course, I have my own agenda to push here - I'll be the recipient of a Nissan Leaf EV by early next year. But you gotta admit, the carpool lane would be much better off in the near term with the yellow stickers gone as soon as possible!
      I have to bring a few things to your attention. The first section of you post is spot on but the rest about the Volt is not accurate.

      SB 535, as written will NOT provide the HOV lanes for the Volt. Right now it can't meet ATPZEV. It will only provide HOV lanes for the 'new' VERY weak PHEV Prius.
      The Volt is a EREV, or extended range Electric Vehicle, and by design it will and can NEVER charge it's battery pack from gasoline.
      This is because the whole Idea of an EREV is to use electric miles, which are at least 4 times as efficient as using gasoline. After it's battery is depleted, it's M-G set will generate only as much electricity as necessary to propel the car and it is prohibited from charging the battery from the M-G. This is the correct operation, and since most daily commutes are less than 40 miles, most miles AT FREEWAY speeds will be accomplished using electricity. I have driven the Volt and discussed this with the GM platform manager.

      SB 535 is a dilluted bill that while initially had a 65 mpg combined mileage number in it, that was removed in favor of CARB's e-ATPZEV definition.
      Toyota's extremely weak PHEV (it's not an EREV, as it can't operate at freeway speeds on electricity alone) and could go 10-12 local miles max in EV mode, will get SB535 HOV access. Basically many folks will never plug this vehicle in. They will just buy it and put gas in it, and essentially destroy any incentive value of the AB1500/ILEV standards.
      The Volt is essentially a serial hybrid, but the industry has chosen to call it an Extended Range Electric Vehicle because of the abomination of the term 'hybrid' by automakers.
      Everyone always wanted a 'Hybrid', MEANING an electric vehicle that can have it's energy supplied by another fuel when the battery is depleted.(100% of propulsion is done by an electric motor) Unfortunately, with the Prius, which is NOT a true or serial Hybrid, rather a Hybrid PROPULSION vehicle, it is NEVER actually 'fueled' by electricity (except in the future with their next generation, not yet out).

      The Volt is a 100% electric drive vehicle, with a range extending feature of a motor - generator set. The Prius is NOTHING like it. The Prius is a gasoline car, with a small electric motor in parallel with a small gasoline engine.

      I testified at the MTA Headquarters in LA to the State Transportation Comittee, and thoroughly urged them to extend HOV benefits to ILEV's but that any others not meeting ILEV standards should not be included in this group. (And exactly how AB1500 turned out.)
      Referring to non ILEV's, my testimony:
      "Consideration to granting the HOV lane access to this class of vehicles needs to be VERY carefully thought out. If such an incentive were granted, it MUST be granted for a limited time, such as 3 years, and only for a very high standard specified.
      What do I mean by a high standard? Something in the order of an absolute minimum of a 50 mile real life electric only range AND thereafter a 50 Mile per gallon gasoline only rating. To grant such a benefit (Single occupant HOV lane access) to any vehicle that has less of a pure electric only range, or a lower mpg gasoline only rating, would be frivolously granting this benefit. Doing so would serve to degrade the incentive effect originally intended with the GOLD “ILEV” standard."

      The problem is that there are so many folks that just want the HOV lanes, and are NOT willing to step up and actually do anything to get it. Unfortunately, the 'new' Prius which will not go freeway speeds or commuting distances on electricity will get the SB535 HOV but the Volt which for most folks will run only on electricity, will not.
      It's a bad bill. We need to get it vetoed, but we need to be accurate.
      Jeff

      Additional note: My reference to "Gold Standard" refers to ILEV, and CARB has come up with Gold, Silver and Bronze standards which are different.
      ps: you're gonna love the Leaf. I drove the EV-1, all generations for a total of 7 years.
      Last edited by CaptJeff; 08-14-2010, 09:14 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Carpool lane for older hybrids until July 2011.

        Thanks for your input CaptJeff. I appreciate to correction and the further education.

        I am really looking forward to the Leaf. I've been watching the EV world for like 10 years now. I've driven a couple (my favorite of which was the eBox), but this is the first shot I've had at ownership, being as Nissan has made this one affordable!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Carpool lane for older hybrids until July 2011.

          CaptJeff,

          I defer to your expertise, but here again is the link on my original post.

          http://sacramento.bizjournals.com/sa...9/daily35.html

          That article now has some new comments on the Volt issue, including the following.

          The new bill authorizes 40,000 more stickers (not white or yellow) for newer PZEVs such as PHEVs like the Volt but they can't start issuing them until 1/1/12 according to the copy I just saw. Strange if true. The Leaf should qualify for white stickers which are unlimited.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Carpool lane for older hybrids until July 2011.

            Originally posted by tomdotstar View Post
            CaptJeff,

            I defer to your expertise, but here again is the link on my original post.

            http://sacramento.bizjournals.com/sa...9/daily35.html

            That article now has some new comments on the Volt issue, including the following.
            Yea, I know. The problem is that the Volt won't meet the ATPZEV, and that was known when that article was
            put out. They just didn't check all their information..
            Aloha,
            Jeff
            Last edited by CaptJeff; 08-16-2010, 08:04 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Carpool lane for older hybrids until July 2011.

              CaptJeff,

              I just spent 45 minutes reading the legislative language, and my head is spinning. My conclusion is the same as yours. Since the Volt is not ATPZEV, it doesn't qualify.

              It looks like the Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid, expected in 2012, has been certified as an Enhanced AT-PZEV, and will qualify for solo HOV access.

              Anybody who wants a brain freeze can read the legislation here:

              http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/bill...0090SB53591ENR

              A more understandable summary is here:

              http://www.hybridcars.com/news/calif...ths-28433.html

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Carpool lane for older hybrids until July 2011.

                To confirm, dedicated NGV passenger cars with Federal ILEV and CARB SULEV get HOV access right?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Carpool lane for older hybrids until July 2011.

                  Here is my understanding of the state of the California carpool rules. I welcome comments and corrections...

                  Both SB 1500 (relating to CNG vehicles) and SB 535 have passed. The CNG-related language in both bills appears to be the same. In essence, Federal ILEV and CARB SULEV vehicles will get access to the carpool lane via the traditional "white sticker" until 2015. There is no cap on the number of white stickers. The ILEV and SULEV rules also apply to the pure electrics like the Tesla and the Leaf. I believe they also apply to the hydrogen powered Clarity.

                  SB 1500 extends the yellow stickers for old hybrids until July 2011. In addition, the bill allows for 40,000 new stickers (presumably a different color) for cars that meet California's AT-PZEV standard.

                  While many press reports suggest that the Leaf and Volt will get carpool access under the new 40,000 sticker rules, I think this is misleading. First, the Leaf is a white sticker vehicle and the number is not capped. Second, the Volt, is not yet certified as AT-PZEV. It is likely that the Volt and the anticipated Prius plug in will qualify as AT-PZEV.

                  SB 1500's new 40,000 stickers become available on Jan 1, 2012. Yes, 2012. This means that the 80,000 yellow stickers will expire on July 1 and no new stickers will be available until 2012. I thought that the 2012 date was a typographical error, but it looks like it is real.

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