Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

[tomdotstar]

This article is highly critical of Honda's actions in the Fuelmaker bankruptcy. It sounds a bit off the wall to me, but here it is...

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=11236&pageid=37&pagename=Page+One

[Ultrajim]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

This is disturbing, however, business abhors a vacuum. Someone will see a need to be filled and money to be made. Perhaps some of the former Fuelmaker people. Since I heard a lot of negatives about their service, etc., a new company may be the best way to go with better service and a less expensive product. Meanwhile, everyone that has a Phill is pretty well screwed.

[cngacrossusa]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

Hello Curtis (Honda alt fuels sales AND Clean Cities rep) . . .

What did Honda tell someone such as yourself about the BOMBSHELL that American Honda (or now do I call them Hitler Honda . . . or Napolean Honda) that Honda had planned to kill cng refueling by burying Fuelmaker??

Of anyone, you can tell us what in the world were they thinking??

Sincerely . . . cng zealot (but maybe losing faith) . . . cngacrossusa

[CNGLO]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

This article is highly critical of Honda's actions in the Fuelmaker bankruptcy. It sounds a bit off the wall to me, but here it is...

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/in...ename=Page+One

The author of this article has been the topic of conversation on our forum before. Personally, I don't think Mr. Black does his homework as well as he should. There are many factual inaccuracies in the article.

Nonetheless, it is a sad day if no one can pick up the Fuelmaker pieces or otherwise provide small refueling appliances to the North American market.

[tomdotstar]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

Before we come unglued about Honda, let's remember they are the company that has done more than any other company to bring ngvs to the USA. In addition, Honda has made as large a commitment as anyone to high mileage environmentally sound vehicles.

Sure they could do more, but so far they have done more than anybody else. The last thing we need now is a circular firing squad.

[cowboy]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

this is back to building a better mouse trap they did not so the world left there door step I hate it for those that have one but we might get a better mouse trap now so lets hope some good comes from it

[cngacrossusa]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

Hello CNGGlow and TomDotStar . . et al,

Read my prior posts on Honda, until this recent fiasco with Fuelmaker, I would have "Honda blood" until death and strongly promote Honda for their effort to continue producing the Civic GX. However, the more you learn, the more you know the truth.

As for Edwin Black and new book . . . The Plan . . . I just spent 50 minutes watching his presentation to automotive journalists . . . see for yourself at:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/10/19/183635.html

and I'm convinced that Edwin Black is our cng movement's new
* * * * * CNG Jesus * * * * * if you will take the label with a grain of salt. He just blew past T Boone Pickens in a micro-second as Ed Black doesn't have any huge monetary interest tied in promoting cng. Instead, Ed Black wants the USA to be OFF OIL ADDICTION . . . which is terriffic!!

My gut tells me "there's more to story" about Honda dumping Fuelmaker . . . like some legal harrangling about lawsuits, new EPA guidelines, or some other bogus bureaucracy that led to Honda burying Fuelmaker. A formerly respected international company such as Honda doesn't just kill a critical piece to the cng puzzle in North America (yes killing FM affects all of North America as likely both Canada and USA will further retract cng efforts), unless there's more to the story. What a crock, as NOW is exactly the time that cng should be expanding!!

We are now seeing the current generation of corporate genecide (meaning corporate greed to keep Big Oil/existing ICE gas hog vehicles intact) . . . .last one was GM killing the EV-1, and now it's Honda killing FM.

As I've said before, it's time for a TRANSPORTATION REVOLUTION . . . let it begin, BOYCOTT any and all auto companies doing business in USA if they continue at status quo. Do NOT buy any Honda until they cure mess they have created with FM. GM . . . not a chance to buy from them. Ford, maybe if they are sincere in efforts to ressurect cng vehicles. Dodge, maybe if they join Fiat and actually bring fuel efficient cars AND cng cars back to USA. Let the REVOLUTION . . . and BOYCOTT begin!!!

[freedml]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

I think they were a little unfair to Honda. While this move doesn't seem at all "Honda-like" (having a reputation for 'doing the right thing') we obviously don't know the whole story yet. I'm guessing they couldn't make a deal with CE or anyone else because FM had too much debt and this was a way to get rid of the company before having to sink more money into it.

Given the speed of the sale of assets, I would guess they already had a buyer who will at least continue to service existing FMs. The existing dealer network probably has a week or two supply of parts in stock.

As far as Honda killing the GX, you don't kill a model by making thousands of them. They had announced plans to move the GX assembly line and make more of them when the recession hit. Honda continues to make the GX while the other car makers abandoned Natural Gas. I think that since GM and Ford could satisfy federal Alt Fuel requirements with E85 cars which are almost the same as their gasoline cars, they weren't going to bother with special CNG engineering any more.

There was a big bubble of CNG demand when gas hit $4/gallon, but you can't increase car production in a few months. Before the 'gasoline bubble' "last year's" GXs were often sitting around on dealer lots when "next year's" started coming in.

Both the GX and FM's Phill require some trained technicians "on the ground" and Honda/FM only had that at certain dealers in CA, NY and UT. Why FM didn't use its existing dealer network to install and/or service Phill is beyond me. Why Phill isn't at all field repairable is also beyond me.

[rtry9a]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

Don't blame Honda. They are losing billions just like all of the other manufacturers. Everyone is in survival mode. Market fluff is going to disappear for a long time to come.

Cng has little demand pressure these days with cheap gasoline available everywhere- the same problems are adding to the demise of CE and Fuelmaker. Businesses cannot get expansion loans from banks, even if they want to take unnecessary risks to expand into an uncertain future.

I'll bet no one is selling cng cars any more- why pay ~$10,000 extra for a car that runs only on a hard to find fuel that costs as much or more than gasoline? The same problem exists for all of the alternative fuel sources these days- we need high gas prices to create the incentives the market needs to expand to other more expensive fuel systems.

I doubt higher market prices will return until world economies recover enough to put demand pressure on marginal fuel resources again. All drilling and infrastructure building is way down, and my guess is that all the "stimulus money" will not help in the near term and the resultant inflation will be extremely destructive to all growth and consumption in our future. Our short-sighted govt is making a bad situation much worse, possibly to the point that declining future generations will be unable to ever recover from today's debt load.

[cngacrossusa]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

To me, the recent 6 months of drama, and drastic (al beit USA only) cng setbacks such as: fire that burned thru Honda Civic GX backseat prompting recall for fire retardant back seat barrier; Sandy UT fire at public refueling site ; Utah PSC/Questar price hike ; and Honda's handling of Fuelmaker . . . etc. . . . only continue to point to same common theme . . .

CNG IS Being Purposely Squashed in the USA

. . . plain and simple. That's what happening.

Why else would Fuelmaker have crazy repair only at HQ "policy" . . . along with recent manufacturing change for Phill to be run by 220 volt electrical source only . . . . are you kidding me, Phil is glorified mini air-compressor that could run on 12 volt connection to cigarette lighter port in vehicle!!

Political or Big Oil forces have been squashing cng (including Fuelmaker) from the inside out for many years. Why else would there be NO COMPETITORS to FM like GasFill (England) or GasAtHome (Netherlands) to enter USA cng market. . . same answer as FM, the "large gorilla" did NOT want them to!!

You can fill in who the "large gorilla" is . . . but it is NOT market forces as both FM's and Civic GX were selling at ABOVE STICKER price for much of past year and a half. Instead, killer of cng is same old nemesis from early 1900's when original electric cars died . . . greedy manipulative companies having their way with the American consumer.

NO MORE . . . let the TRANSPORTATION REVOLUTION begin . . BOYCOTT !!

P.S. Only company who "Has It Right" recently is AT&T who committed to 8,000 immediate cng vehicles, AND openly advertises it's pursuit of Alternative Fuel vehicles on TV ads. Go AT&T!! I'll never buy from COX again!!

[rtry9a]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

To me, the recent 6 months of drama, and drastic (al beit USA only) cng setbacks such as: fire that burned thru Honda Civic GX backseat prompting recall for fire retardant back seat barrier; Sandy UT fire at public refueling site ; Utah PSC/Questar price hike ; and Honda's handling of Fuelmaker . . . etc. . . . only continue to point to same common theme . . .

CNG IS Being Purposely Squashed in the USA

. . . plain and simple. That's what happening.

Why else would Fuelmaker have crazy repair only at HQ "policy" . . . along with recent manufacturing change for Phill to be run by 220 volt electrical source only . . . . are you kidding me, Phil is glorified mini air-compressor that could run on 12 volt connection to cigarette lighter port in vehicle!!

Political or Big Oil forces have been squashing cng (including Fuelmaker) from the inside out for many years. Why else would there be NO COMPETITORS to FM like GasFill (England) or GasAtHome (Netherlands) to enter USA cng market. . . same answer as FM, the "large gorilla" did NOT want them to!!

You can fill in who the "large gorilla" is . . . but it is NOT market forces as both FM's and Civic GX were selling at ABOVE STICKER price for much of past year and a half. Instead, killer of cng is same old nemesis from early 1900's when original electric cars died . . . greedy manipulative companies having their way with the American consumer.

NO MORE . . . let the TRANSPORTATION REVOLUTION begin . . BOYCOTT !!

P.S. Only company who "Has It Right" recently is AT&T who committed to 8,000 immediate cng vehicles, AND openly advertises it's pursuit of Alternative Fuel vehicles on TV ads. Go AT&T!! I'll never buy from COX again!!

I don't disagree with the emotion behind your post, but you obviously have not priced spark proof equipment lately- requires special motors and materials. We are not pumping up tires nor pushing water here; running in a dangerous (both flammable and high pressure) environment requires a lot more design and thorough testing to get past the lawyers and regulators. When you allocate all the development, distribution, and support overhead costs over small production runs, parts tend to get expensive fast.

[Edwin]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

You wrote: "Well Mr Black seems to be quite the flaming reporter. Inaccurate and hiding behind people that don't want to be identified for fear of reprisal."
Unless you have any evidence of inaccuracies, you should withdraw your remark and your aspersions. If you do have evidence of factual inaccuracies, it is your duty to inform us now.

[Amfuel]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

You are right. You are accurate in every way and I appologize for posting such an inflamatory statement.

[freedml]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

Ok, here are inaccuracies:

"The commercial version called the Vehicle Refueling Appliance could fast fill several vehicles." VRAs cannot fast fill unless they have storage.

"[Honda] would mainly sell those few cars to select dealers in New York and California. A long list of alt-fuel advocates lined up to purchase the car, especially during the nerve-wracking triple-digit per barrel oil prices of 2008. But Honda would not increase production." Honda sold GXs at retail through GX dealers who are only in CA, NY and UT. They were available to fleet departments everywhere since 1998. Honda does not manufacture the CNG parts of the car and could not increase production on a month's notice. They moved the production line which caused expected delays in deliveries. People were only 'clammoring' for GXs when gasoline hit $4 a gallon. I don't think there's any clammoring going on now. And before the gasoline price spike, GXs were sitting on dealer lots.

"[Honda/FM] declining to sell the Phill refueling units in most locales that wanted them" Again, FM required trained Phill installers in areas where they sold Phill and were slowly expanding that network. Phill is no harder to install than a gas dryer, but that was their position. And I think the demand for Phill was highly exaggerated.

So, I think there were inaccuracies in the article. No apology necessary...

[freedml]

Re: Very disturbing article on Fuelmaker

By the way, nothing is or was stopping people from buying used GXs, Phills or VRAs in any part of the country. They were and are offered on eBay and other ways. I bought my GXs used years before they were available new through Honda dealers.