Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

[John Mitton]

Salt Lake City, Deseret News Dec 24, 2008
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705272666,00.html

We have a lively discussion in the Utah Forum about this:
http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=21713

The ruling essentially disallows the use of pricing based on the low-cost local Utah/Wyoming natural gas wells, instead requiring Questar to price NGV fuel based on national market rates

[freedml]

Re: Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

The Deseret story has it wrong. $.80 to $1.43 (still a bargain compared to California prices) is an 88% increase, not a 188% increase.

[Tax Counsel]

Re: Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

Another related story:

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/-price...28/3879719.htm

[freedml]

Re: Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

Will the price change from month to month as the price of NG changes? In other words, is there a price for the gas plus a price for compression and infrastructure like utilities in CA?

[utahngv]

Re: Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

The Deseret story has it wrong. $.80 to $1.43 (still a bargain compared to California prices) is an 88% increase, not a 188% increase.

Not a bargain anymore... So. California users are reporting $1.27 in some areas.

[freedml]

Re: Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

Not a bargain compared to California, but still less than gasoline, at least here.

CE is, in fact, staying with its business plan to build CNG use by pricing their retail CNG at substantially below the price of gasoline. At the moment, they are probably losing money on retail CNG if you consider all of their costs. But, they were raking it in last summer.

[John Mitton]

Salt Lake Tribune

The SL Tribune has a good story today on the PSC rate hike. Yours Truly is quoted:
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11388575

[siai47]

Re: Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

The people who wrote replies to the SL Tribune article for the most part don't like the fact that they are "subsidizing" the costs of fuel for the CNG users. When you pit one large class of users (gasoline) vs. a smaller class of users (CNG) the smaller class always looses. The bottom line is money, their money. It doesn't matter to them what the reason was for the original subsidy was--in this case to promote a clean vehicle fuel. It doesn't matter to them that users of CNG vehicles paid more for their vehicles then gasoline users. It doesn't matter to them that CNG vehicle users can't find a fueling station on every corner. All that matters to them is that they percieve CNG users as a small elite group that is getting special benefits. They were envious of those who saved money during the recent runup in gasoline prices and now want to exact their revenge--which they will, it's human nature. They will also be the first to cry when gasoline prices rise and/or supplies tighten. The only solution for CNG is to get a Federal subsidy for CNG and remove it from State control. Ethanol (which is a farm subsidy) has been playing this game succsessfully for many, many years.

[Yroc]

Re: Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

Throwing the word subsidy into this argument is just to get the majority on their side. It's easy to say to everyone that they are subsidizing the price, but explaining how the price has been set for the past 20 years takes much longer. It's a good political move, but that doesn't make it right.

I don't see why they can't just charge what we pay at our homes for CNG and then add a reasonable cost of service for pump maintenance (and even some for new pumps) Current pumps were installed with grants, which is our tax money anyway...

Funny thing about this argument is that I feel this rate hike by the PSC is the same as ridiculous EPA cert prices!!! (they don't make sense) If people operated with common sense, everyone could easily drive an NGV, but why would we want things to be easy?

[balikbayan21]

Re: Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

The people who wrote replies to the SL Tribune article for the most part don't like the fact that they are "subsidizing" the costs of fuel for the CNG users. When you pit one large class of users (gasoline) vs. a smaller class of users (CNG) the smaller class always looses. The bottom line is money, their money. It doesn't matter to them what the reason was for the original subsidy was--in this case to promote a clean vehicle fuel. It doesn't matter to them that users of CNG vehicles paid more for their vehicles then gasoline users. It doesn't matter to them that CNG vehicle users can't find a fueling station on every corner. All that matters to them is that they percieve CNG users as a small elite group that is getting special benefits. They were envious of those who saved money during the recent runup in gasoline prices and now want to exact their revenge--which they will, it's human nature. They will also be the first to cry when gasoline prices rise and/or supplies tighten. The only solution for CNG is to get a Federal subsidy for CNG and remove it from State control. Ethanol (which is a farm subsidy) has been playing this game succsessfully for many, many years.

...our bumper stickers didn't help our image at all... "I pay 63 cents a gallon and you pay $4"

[Jay Francis]

Re: Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

There was an article in the City Weekly yesterday called "Under Pressure". Someone put it on my desk because they knew I had a CNG Honda (didn't know anyone actually read City Weekly). It mentions Governor Huntsman and his plan to help with the fight to have clean burning cars in the state. He has even ear-marked several million dollars to install more CNG pumps throughout the state once the Obama state stimulous package comes through. Problem is if prices raise too far then the money will be wasted because no one will buy any more CNG cars. I would think he might get involved if he thought it through. Some emails or letters to his office might also help our cause.

[Tax Counsel]

Re: Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

There was an article in the City Weekly yesterday called "Under Pressure".

Here's a link to that article:

http://www.slweekly.com/index.cfm?do...D7D03D4C428333

[cngacrossusa]

Re: Natural-gas prices for cars to soar in Utah

Get to the root cause all you Utah cng supporters. My guess is it's either Big Oil, carmakers or one last stand by good ole Pres Bush Jr to make effort to kill cng. Both EPA and now some cronies within the Utah PSC are doing EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what should be done to enhance growth of cng.

We educated cng users know there are VAST supplies of natural gas within 48 states, not to mention the MASSIVE natural gas that is in Alaska being either vented, or put back in ground for last 20 years!!! If Sarah Palin can do one thing worthy of America's fascination with her, it is complete the pipeline from Alaska to the 48 states. Then ONLY charge ALL of USA the cost of gas and transmission at one equalized LOW rate (ie much like a US postal stamp that can mail anything across the USA), then only logical difference in end-user prices for public cng will be electricity for compression. If this was done, I guarantee that public cng price could stay under $1.50 for many years.

Best bet for Utah will be attack the very process that PSC bamboozled the rate increase through. Get an EXPERT WITNESS to testify in very PUBLICIZED fashion before the Utah PSC . . . . . and get double for the money, by having expert witness get some direct face time before the Utah legislature. Icing on the cake would be to get Obama in the loop.

Fight this to the end . . . . this is NOT RIGHT!!