Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

[Yroc]

So does anyone have any additional info about this? Funny it's says poisoning as Natural Gas is inert, anyway kinda crazy...

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=4772381

[Amfuel]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

Natural gas, methane, CH4, is a non-toxic gas. Adultrants in the gas may not be. Safety classes are available for working with high pressure gasses. If an idiot does not abide by best practice for safety, the responsibility is placed squarely on that individual's shoulders.

The children were drowning in the leaking gas just as if they were unattended in a running car that has an exhaust leak or a bath tub with water.

The situation was unfortunate but the children (thank the lord) are OK.

This is one instance where the EPA restrictions that limit the sale of product to qualified companies is to save the idiot from oneself.

[karlhafen]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

Well I think this is the "big one" we have all been expecting. I bet Inspections and regulations will be forthcoming. Thank goodness no one had to die.

[Lancer Automotive Group]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

Would like to see an investigation on where the kit or tanks were purchased. Something needs to be done.

[John Mitton]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

The person who sold him the kit is equally culpable. In the legal side of this business if it were my retrofit system EPA and DOT would be coming directly to me for answers as the manufacturer. We maintain expensive product liability insurance coverage for this while competing with eBayers who don't. The playing field has to be leveled and these products taken off the market ASAP.

More links:
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10963306?IA...www.sltrib.com (Four kids hospitalized after inhaling natural gas at an Orem fueling station)

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/loc...6-d56591089c03 (Four children rushed to the hospital when they passed out)

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc...7-a90f52173ee1 (Four children in hospital after being overcome with natural gas)

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

Well, there is no 'certification' for installing the tanks, so nothing preventing someone from purchasing the tanks themselves. There IS a responsibility that the tanks be installed per NFPA guidelines, which I'm pretty sure require that all fittings within the passenger compartment be bagged and ducted to the outside. This would have prevented the gas from the leak from entering the vehicle. The simple fact is, everything leaks, so the proper isolation form he passenger's is VITALLY important.

Again, the only thing that would have prevented this inevitable event from happening is a proper inspection requirement system.

Of course, this is also the reason I would not buy an SUV with tanks in the passenger compartment.

[Lancer Automotive Group]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

KSL Radio just left our shop, looks like it almost took some one dying for people to take notice.

[karlhafen]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

Well, there is no 'certification' for installing the tanks, so nothing preventing someone from purchasing the tanks themselves. There IS a responsibility that the tanks be installed per NFPA guidelines, which I'm pretty sure require that all fittings within the passenger compartment be bagged and ducted to the outside. This would have prevented the gas from the leak from entering the vehicle. The simple fact is, everything leaks, so the proper isolation form he passenger's is VITALLY important.

Again, the only thing that would have prevented this inevitable event from happening is a proper inspection requirement system.

Of course, this is also the reason I would not buy an SUV with tanks in the passenger compartment.

I agree completely. There is nothing inherently illegal about expired or damaged tanks, NON-epa kits or cheep hardware untill it is installed on a car.

[joehaynie]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

It makes me think of the times I've smelled NG as I'm standing outside filling my Civic GX. I imagine it is either gas leaking from a not-completely-tight coupling or perhaps the venting you hear from the pump itself when you turn it off and disconnect. I expect everything is sealed up tight within the vehicle itself but it raises a couple of questions:

• Where in Utah can I go to get an inspection done to ensure I don't have a leak?
• Is there some sort of methane sensor that can be installed inside a vehicle to detect any leak that is entering the passenger compartment?

[Lancer Automotive Group]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

We offer a free leak detection, our techs will use out sniffer and check the connections for you.

[karlhafen]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

It makes me think of the times I've smelled NG as I'm standing outside filling my Civic GX. I imagine it is either gas leaking from a not-completely-tight coupling or perhaps the venting you hear from the pump itself when you turn it off and disconnect. I expect everything is sealed up tight within the vehicle itself but it raises a couple of questions:

• Where in Utah can I go to get an inspection done to ensure I don't have a leak?
• Is there some sort of methane sensor that can be installed inside a vehicle to detect any leak that is entering the passenger compartment?

I think any RV shop has them for about $40-$50.

[Franz]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

They are called a "Combustible Gas Detector" and are indeed sold at many RV service centers for propane service. Remember that NG is lighter than air and will rise while propane is heavier than air and will settle to the ground. For good detection, a NG sensor should be mounted from face level to the ceiling.

For what its worth, NG is non toxic but can be an asphyixiant, which is what happened in this case.

Many states have mandatory CNG certification for all installations, WITH some exceptions, which include a vehicle owner, as long as the vehicle is not sold, rented, or used in commerce.

There are many websites selling CNG kits, some even state that they are NOT EPA or DOT approved but are "legal to install". Hmm, wonder how they got that out?

For a good overview of rules, check out the National Fire Protection Association Pamphlet 52 (www.nfpacatalog.org) for standards that every state in the country MUST follow, passed by an act of the Congress, published in the Code of Federal Regulations. A political subdivision or responsible public entity MAY choose to enhance that standard with their own but NO state may waive the act of Congress unless they secede from the country. That hasnt happened in a long time!

Franz

[freedml]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

Ok, so technically it's asphyxiation, a lack of Oxygen, not poisoning.

I bought a Methane detector on the internet for my garage. Very sensitive and very loud (I put the nozzle next to it after refueling and that little bit of gas was enough to set it off).

I also calculated that the entire output of my compressor would have to leak into the garage and stay there for 16 hours for there to be enough gas to ignite. Basically impossible given how 'leaky' the typical California garage is. And also given that the compressor will shut off if the pressure in 'the tank' doesn't keep rising.

[larrycng]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

This sounds like suffication since CH4 displaces oxygen in the lung and the mercaptian is insignificant as far as poison qualities go -- it is a cancer causing agent.

What type of cylinder was in the vehicle? Type 4? I aquired a nice Type 4 because the drive smelled gas after fueling and until the pressure in the tank dropped to about 1800 psi and then there was no more problem until it was refueled again. I cut it up for some great training aids - the mfg was a littled miffed. This is why I favor type 3 cylinders for inside installations. Type 4 are great outside of the passenger compartment including the trunk. However Honda's seem to have no problems with type 4 -- go figuer

Larrycng.

[Franz]

Re: Children recovering from natural gas poisoning

In the late 90's, a major cylinder manufacturer (EDO?) had a problem with their end-domes leaking. UPS cancelled their CNG purchase based on that problem. I think EDO was purchased by Impco and the product redesigned for Hydrogen storage.

I remember soaping a fully pressurized type 4 and seeing the entire end dome bubbling like a mat of cotton! It would leak down to half pressure overnight.

Franz