Pickens Plan Supporters?

[ngvdrivers.com]

Just curious what the general feeling of the group is towards Pickens' energy plan reported yesterday. I, for one, think he is a brilliant visionary who isn't afraid to take risks and tells it like it is. I thought it was funny when an "analyst" said Pickens' plan "has been on the drawing board for years." The difference is that Pickens is willing to take action instead of continuing to just keep planning for years - what Pickens calls the "ready-aim-aim-aim syndrome".

I know there is some healthy debate among our membership about whether Pickens is good for our cause - adoption of CNG as a transportation fuel (at least that's my cause anyway). After reviewing Pickens plan and knowing his past history of successful ventures, I'm now off the fence. I'm "all in" with Pickens' plan. I'm a fellow alumn of Oklahoma State U. and couldn't be happier about Pickens efforts to take on the huge energy problem in our country which is no longer threatening to stagnate and retract our economy - the effects are already here.

The 80-year-old Pickens is already a billionaire, so I honestly think this chapter in his life is only partially about profit (a means to a larger end) - I think this challenge is his attempt to leave a lasting legacy beyond making alot of money. He is already a huge philanthropist. I think this venture is feeding his self-actualization needs (I think that's the last level on Maslow's hierarchy of needs if I'm remembering my Psychology correctly). If he makes a few bucks for his companies in the process, I'm fine with it. I think he is a great steward of the wealth/value he creates - and maybe my alma mater will get another few hundred million in donations in the process -

Any interest in a CNG group on pickensplan.com? http://push.pickensplan.com/groups/group/list

Moderators note: Thread moved to The News from Ok forum by OP request.

[cnghal]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

{earlier comment moderated} I just hope your love affair can survive "Big Daddy" Boone's takeover of ONEOK (Oklahoma Natural Gas, Texas Gas Service and Kansas Gas Service). It will be really heartwarming to see you Okies paying $2.99/GGE or more to Clean Energy so that you can support "Picken's Vision" to be "Master of the Energy Universe".

[ch4]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

I just hope your love affair can survive "Big Daddy" Boone's takeover of ONEOK (Oklahoma Natural Gas, Texas Gas Service and Kansas Gas Service). It will be really heartwarming to see you Okies paying $2.99/GGE or more to Clean Energy so that you can support "Picken's Vision" to be "Master of the Energy Universe".

cnghal, not only are you a Nazi Squirrel Moderator, but also a visionary optimist.
I was one of the first, to critiqe T. Boones asociation with CLNE, and BP Cap, but if he can pull off wind power to replace natural gas power generation I'm all for it.

This is not a pipe-dream, the Europeans are doing it... why aren't we?

If we have to pay 2.99 for everyone to drive natural gas cars then so be it.
We have to get off the oil teat.

When I watched him at the Senate committee hearing he wanted 'right-of-way' for his towers of power.

I know he is a megalomaniac, maybe we need one because in 40 years the US Energy policy is zip.

[ngvdrivers.com]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

cnghal's immature response is a reason I infrequently post. There are too many bad apples who LIVE to make inappropriate comments on forums like this. Why can't you just give an intelligent response without getting childish? Do you think you help your cause (whatever that is) by attacking people?

[John Mitton]

Agreed. Post moderated.
Getting back on topic, camryman has offered to start a user group over on PickensPlan for our members. I think this would be great. Anyone object?

[ngvdrivers.com]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

By they way, yes I'd gladly pay more money for CNG if that buys me many more stations to choose from, better equipment, better pressure, etc. ONG doesn't maintain their public stations very well and their equipment is extremely outdated. They don't make money selling CNG for cars. With the explosion in demand for CNG due to the cost of gasoline, it's becoming more and more difficult for NGV drivers to get a good fill-up and getting stranded when multiple stations are out of service at the same time is becoming more of a likelihood.

Go out and spend $400,000+ to build a CNG station and try to sell it for 90 cents per GGE and see how much money you make. Yes, Clean Energy charges more, but they're in business to make money - not throw it away by holding on to obsolete infrastructure and continuing to subsidize fuel costs for individuals. Once CNG becomes more available as a transportation fuel (supply and refueling infrastructure - both in Pickens' plan), it will be possible to charge less for it. Until then, it's not a bad thing for the cost to go up a bit - if it's too low, then NGV drivers have no incentive to reduce their driving at all. When gasoline was 90 cents per gallon about 9 years ago, everyone bought huge SUVs and drove everywhere - hyperconsumption eventually causes increased prices. CNG is not immune to this reality.

[ngvdrivers.com]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

I agree that it deserves it's own area. Thanks!

[cnghal]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

Ngvdrivers,
Sorry you were offended by my comments and concidered it an attack on "you".
When I was living in Norman, and an OU Sooner fan, OSU Cowboy jokes were always fair game and vice versa. Obviously in this PC world, some people have gotten a little thin skinned.
Again I apologize, but I hope you don't hold it against me if I keep an eye on the wolves in sheep's clothing.
Picken's Plan is a wonderful and perfectly logical direction for this country.
I just have a problem swallowing it coming from him. I mean, would you trust this or any plan if it came from the owner/major shareholder of Exxon/Mobil, Gulf Oil, Phillips Petroleum, Unical, Occidental Petroleum, Mesa Petroleum or Clean Energy.
Well, "NEWS FLASH", that's exactly who we are talking about. Big Oil is in his blood.
An American Industrialist and Philanthropist, just like John D. Rockefeller and his little venture, STANDARD OIL. For those of you who haven't seen Gashole, The Movie yet, or are to young to remember the reasons and major players in the energy crisis, then and now, please "wake up and smell the crude!"

[ch4]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

Ngvdrivers,
Sorry you were offended by my comments and concidered it an attack on "you".
... "wake up and smell the crude!"[/I][/B]

No offense here. I thought we were starting a good debate.

While I implicitly trust your reasoning and wisdom... There are no other alternatives!

What else are we to do?? Stay w/ the same old non-policy we have.
Granted Bushes Oil Boys (prob. including T Boone, although I don't think he was in the secret Chaney meeting) screwed things worse.

FCS! Lets at LEAST move from oil to natural gas.

[mecklen]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

Picken's Plan is a wonderful and perfectly logical direction for this country.

If we could get significant agreement on that statement, I think it would be an important achievement. Most people are jaded enough to realize that billionaires are driven by strong self interest. We'll keep our eyes peeled for the wolves.

I'm glad you think it's a good direction.

Cheers,

[mecklen]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

I think the real (short-term) value of the Pickens Plan is to send a message to the auto manufacturers. It's no good getting grassroots support for NG when there are no cars to buy! I think our #1 priority is to get Detroit, Japan, Korea, and the EU to start building NGV's for sale in the US.

Perhaps the Pickens crowd can start a Big Three lobbying campaign for NG vehicles.

[camryman]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

I created a group on Pickens plan,

http://push.pickensplan.com/group/cngchat

A #1 direct people to cngchat
and
#2 to create a large lobbying group of CNG people on pickens plan.

There are a lot of yahoo's trying to push ethanol and a lot of other ideas that are way off track even slamming CNG as an alternative.

The plan is a good one overall and we do need to stop sending our hard earned 700 billion to foreign governments that is spent on gasoline.

Sometime in the future we also need to stop sending all our hard earned money to China.

Pickens can not do this alone, He can spend billions, but it will not work unless there is a large force behind the plan.

There are also large forces against pickens plan and he cannot do it alone. Big oil the auto makers coal and oil power suppliers Ethanol lobby and our own corrupt politicians on the oil $$$ take will try to put a stop to it. These are Trillion dollar Lobby's with unlimited funds.

Pickens is a business man for sure and has a business plan to make money I don't disagree with this, but my biggest fear is the CE Monopoly and CNG pricing in the future. We need a lobby to protect against the overcharging by CE for Fuel.

Ce is charging the highest prices right now for CNG over $3, probably due to low gas sales volume and a need to be profitable, but what will it be in the future? With increased volume the profit margin per gallon can be lower will the price remain low or will the CNG price surpass gasoline?

There are a lot of people signing up on pickens plan 21K in the last couple of days, Bringing the 3000 members from CNG CHAT to pickens would place us in the #1 largest group on his site as of right now. Lets create a lobbying force with in pickensplan.

I created a group.

http://push.pickensplan.com/group/cngchat

I can think of no better place to lobby and educate people about cng then on Pickens own networking site.

[cnguser]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

Count me in.
Let's leave out the personalities on this, and focus on the purpose / outcome.
My only flags on this is the plan needs oversight to ensure:
1. The wind and solar power generated is not marketed with outlandish oil price gouging ripoff rates. Local utility commissions will need to keep a handle on this.
2. The natual gas saved by not producing electricity is 100% earmarked for vehicles/transportation. Again, the utility commissions will need to oversee.

Some tax credits should be considered for the wind turbine and solar installations, and possilby for expanding the CNG fueling station infrastructure. Sorry, the automakers don't need any tax breaks here - they already know how to build CNG vehicles (and they continue build them in foreign markets) as has been proven.
Let's not forget the CNG transportation market will include larger vehicles such as busses, truck transport, and the like. It's not just for us and our little CNG cars.

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

So it seems the idea here is to slow consumer spending on oil, and replace it with government (tax) spending on meddling in business practices? I say let the market do it's work. Business and the people will gravitate towards the most efficient solution, that has always been the case, when government stays out of the damn way. Why do people think that tax credits and rebates are going to solve the energy crisis, when it was credits to the oil companies to artificially keep gasoline cheap for the last 30 year that got us in the mess to begin with? If gas prices in the US had followed the rest of the world over the last 30 years, and had a nice gradual climb, natural gas would have been a valid economic alternative 10 years ago. The Big 3 wouldn't have pulled out of it, and we would already be working towards energy independance.

It is this reactionary practice of giving credits for something, long enough to get it well established, and then realizing you can no longer afford to subsidise it, stopping the credits, that killed CNG in AZ, and will do it again nationwide if this is the 'plan'.

[mecklen]

Re: Pickens Plan Supporters?

I don't understand this belief that the "free market" will solve all problems.

It seems to me that CE's prices in SoCal are a classic example of the free market. It seems to me that Detroit's response to CNG ("we tried CNG, it didn't sell") is a classic example of the free market. Isn't the Microsoft monopoly a classic example of the free market? At least part of the credit crisis is because of unscrupulous loan practices due to lack of regulation.

Truly free markets are about crushing your competition using anti-social techniques and jacking up your prices once you have a monopoly.

I prefer cooperative capitalism -- companies get to make a profit without being given a free hand. Works for me.