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  • CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

    Filling your vehicle at home generally costs around one dollar per gallon! The amount of smog-forming emissions is near zero. In fact, the Honda Civic GX is the cleanest-burning internal-combustion vehicle in the world, so you feel good about protecting the environment as you drive.

    Curtis,

    I've just joined. Thanks for hosting such a robust, and seemingly well-used site on CNG/NGVs. Being 'new', I started at the Home page, which I've quoted from, above.

    Q1: May I get a/the calculation that supports the "~ $1/gge at home" claim, please? I mean a cost work up, with labels on each of the component costs that sum to the "$1" total-to-the-consumer amount. Please qualify it (date, location, etc.) however may be needed to explain its relevancy, applicability, comparability-to-gasoline, to a new-coming (from anywhere USA) reader, as of today. Reason: This is the 2nd paragraph a newcomer, me, reads.

    Q2: The Honda picture and reference on the Home page makes me think this Home page, at least---and perhaps this entire site, in general---is sponsored by (or underwritten by, or subsidized by) Honda. Is it? Is any of it?

    Your job description also tends to add to such an inference. I've no problem with such, should that be an element of the underlying economics for the site. I just can not readily tell if that is indeed the case from banners, other ads, FAQs, etc., and I'd like to know 'up front'.

    Appreciatively.

  • #2
    Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

    Welcome, Wallace,

    There are several threads and seemingly endless posts on trying to pin down all the costs of home refueling. A short summary -- $1/gallon is only possible today in places like Utah where the price of gas is heavily subsidized. In Southern California, it is probably somewhere between $1.25 and $1.50 with a compressor other than Phill. Phill probably adds another $1/gallon and maybe more if it fails before reaching its maximum service hours. The "$1/gallon" is either a little dated or refers only to the cost of the gas itself and not the associated costs of using it.

    A CNG Chevy Impala ad is at the upper right corner of most pages. I expect that the Honda GX is part of the intro to the group because it's the only factory CNG model ever to be offered at retail to the public. Because something like 10,000 of them have been built, it also generates a lot of discussion.

    www.cngchat.com is a volunteer effort. The owners/moderators are in the business, and that's no secret.
    02 GX
    01 GX
    03 Crown Vic
    06 GX
    Home Fueler

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

      Right. Curtis had a Yahoo forum for his Civic GX customers which we moved over here in the fall of 07. Our member Timon also had an active forum at Yahoo so between them and myself we got this little corner of the Internet running. The NaturalDrive ad is a shameless plug for my conversion business and of course Curtis sells a fair number of GX's at his dealership from leads generated here.

      We offer forum sponsorships for NGV industry participants, which revenue essentially covers our hosting and software fees.

      The opening page hasn't changed since day one so it is certianly due for a spruce-up. Perhaps you can suggest more appropriate text?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

        Welcome Wallace . . . you don't mention if you HAVE a cng vehicle . . . or whether you just WANT to have a cng vehicle . . . or just interested.

        If you're sincere in HELPING the cng community, then you'll get ALL the information you can possibly use. However, if you're trying to hurt cng movement in any way, you have stumbled into the wrong briar patch!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

          Wallace, welcome to the group! While it's true, I am an employee of a franchised Honda dealer, as well as a Clean Cities Coordinator, I am not in any way representing American Honda on this site. Key Honda personnel are members and are quite capable of offering Honda's perspective on various topics, as they see fit to join in.

          You'll find that many of our members are industry leaders and professionals as are our moderators and administrators for the most part. We all lend our time and expertise to people, such as yourself, because of our passion to advance the cng/alt fuels marketplace. CNGChat is hardly a "for profit" venture.

          We hope you find the information you seek here, whether you're an owner, or simply investigating cng to see if it's a fit for you. There's tons of great information in this forum. Read through and join into any topics that spur your interest.
          Last edited by Curtis; 05-01-2009, 04:23 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

            Thanks Guys,

            Quote: We offer forum sponsorships for NGV industry participants, which revenue essentially covers our hosting and software fees. Unquote.

            I asked if Honda ...sponsored or under[wrote] or subsidized. So, I still don't have an answer. I've been told they may, or they might have, if they were to take up an offer the site has made, to many, generally. I've not been told if they have.

            So, let me rephrase my Q: Has Honda taken up CNGchat's offer and paid moola to the site? 'Paid' means past tense, already done ...for whatever.

            If this Q is considered out of line, and site managers would prefer not to answer it, I'd like to know that, explicitly, and the 'why' behind that position.

            I'm asking because I wish to gather actual, market/product-boosting behaviors evidence, to compare with product-advertising messages, and corporate-PR msgs, that Honda's issued, plus their 10-yr manufacturing and sales behaviors. I consider it timely now, re. the FuelMaker episode. I've wondered for years why Honda never made a bi-fuel version, if they were so terribly committed as they, and others, have asserted.

            Being a visible, generous sponsorer of this site---and, categorically, sites like this one---would be 'market/product-boosting'. Not being so would tend to not be. I look forward to your answer.

            Thanks,

            RW

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

              Honda has never assisted financially with this site.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

                Originally posted by Wallace View Post
                Thanks Guys,

                Quote: We offer forum sponsorships for NGV industry participants, which revenue essentially covers our hosting and software fees. Unquote.

                I asked if Honda ...sponsored or under[wrote] or subsidized. So, I still don't have an answer. I've been told they may, or they might have, if they were to take up an offer the site has made, to many, generally. I've not been told if they have.

                So, let me rephrase my Q: Has Honda taken up CNGchat's offer and paid moola to the site? 'Paid' means past tense, already done ...for whatever.

                If this Q is considered out of line, and site managers would prefer not to answer it, I'd like to know that, explicitly, and the 'why' behind that position.

                I'm asking because I wish to gather actual, market/product-boosting behaviors evidence, to compare with product-advertising messages, and corporate-PR msgs, that Honda's issued, plus their 10-yr manufacturing and sales behaviors. I consider it timely now, re. the FuelMaker episode. I've wondered for years why Honda never made a bi-fuel version, if they were so terribly committed as they, and others, have asserted.

                Being a visible, generous sponsorer of this site---and, categorically, sites like this one---would be 'market/product-boosting'. Not being so would tend to not be. I look forward to your answer.

                Thanks,

                RW
                RW,
                Not that it matters, as there are no big underlying conspiracies going on here (nor at Honda), but what exactly is your point/interest in all of this. Are you a writer, conspiracy theorist, or???

                You seem to be after the "dirt" on Honda. So where are you going with all of this? This site is about a bunch of guys trying to help a bunch of other guys to own cng vehicles (of all kinds) and have a resource which makes our lives easier.

                So why are you here?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

                  Originally posted by Wallace View Post
                  Thanks Guys,

                  Quote:

                  I asked if Honda ...sponsored or under[wrote] or subsidized. So, I still don't have an answer. I've been told they may, or they might have, if they were to take up an offer the site has made, to many, generally. I've not been told if they have.

                  So, let me rephrase my Q: Has Honda taken up CNGchat's offer and paid moola to the site? 'Paid' means past tense, already done ...for whatever.

                  If this Q is considered out of line, and site managers would prefer not to answer it, I'd like to know that, explicitly, and the 'why' behind that position.


                  Being a visible, generous sponsorer of this site---and, categorically, sites like this one---would be 'market/product-boosting'. Not being so would tend to not be. I look forward to your answer.

                  Thanks,

                  RW
                  RW:

                  1. As a Moderator, If I have been duped into being a shill for American Honda, I want my share of the loot L.O.L. Tell Honda I'm still waiting for the check.


                  2. Bi-fuel vehicles have sub par performance on the alternate fuel , be it CNG or Propane. They also have higher initial , maintenance and warranty costs . Just ask Ford. The Ford alternate fuel programme had the highest customer dissatisfaction and warranty costs per vehicle in Ford Motor Co. history........( Can you say "Compuvalve" ) Just try to get a new compuvalve for a bi-fuel Ford. Let us know when you find one L.O.L.

                  3. Non dedicated vehicles loose out on many incentives , like tax credits, and single occupant HOV lane access. I'm on my 3rd CNG vehicle in 8 years. Without the incentives , I would be driving a Prius.
                  Last edited by Lakewood90712; 05-06-2009, 06:00 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

                    Thank you, John, for the straight talk, and I'm sorry to have excited, provoked you, Curtis. My interest is exacty as you state the site's is, Curtis.

                    I run an NGV -- have for 16 years now (virtually all without the benefit of a supportive community, like CNGchat) -- and I've personally helped others do so, too, and I'm a policy advocate for as much of it as possible, as fast as it can be rolled out.

                    I support it more for geopolitics, US-consumer practicality and economic reasons (US$ value, domestic resource jobs, etc) than I do for enviro reasons. And, in that exact vein, Curtis, I wanted to know, to what degree Honda was one of the CNGchat 'guys', or not.

                    John's answer did not surprise.

                    If you look at the "About Me" tab re. my profile info --- that CNGchat Forum Staff <[email protected]> tell me can be seen by all (tho' how is not yet clear to me, perhaps per my new member status)---you'll see some of my bona fides.

                    Not all info regarding Honda is "dirt", despite (tsk) an attempt I see to belittle, besmirch any such as ravings of conspiracy theorists. Some/lots is fact. And much of that fact-set is that Honda's behavior is conflicted, inconsistent, glaringly-non-economic, very perverse, and thus suspicious.

                    To wit: Honda is clearly not an advocate for "as much of it as possible, as fast as it can be rolled out." If Honda were, they'd act differently: They'd make a bi-fuel product, they'd invest in public fuelling sites, and then they'd sponsor this site ...in my opinion.

                    Honda does not share my goals, nor do they support the policy initiatives we all need ...in my opinion. They don't make a product I, or anyone I know, would want. Others do: Opel, M-B, Ford, Volvo, Fiat, Volkswagon all have great bi-valent models.

                    Selling a dedicated car in the US today (as over the last 10 years) is a way to cause confusion and engender disappointment, as well as put civilians at risk---running out of fuel while in traffic. Doing that, willfully, is being a bad citizen ...in my opinion.

                    Making a car that doesn't have a viable re-sale market, particularly when they could make one which instantly has a hungry secondary market, is quite strange ...in anyone's opinion.

                    Not making an NGV for the euro market, when they make one here -- and then don't sell it -- is exceptionally weird. And managing FuelMaker, as they did since their 20% purchase, provides more fodder for my thesis than it does for yours: "...there are no big underlying conspiracies going on... at Honda"

                    Be careful, Curtis! I think the jury is still out, on this one. I've tried to get answers from Steve Ellis on several occasions; I've not encountered many in business who blow as much smoke as that guy does.

                    So, given the above, Curtis, is it ok with you -- and with, say, cngacrossusa -- that I'm here? ...burdened as I am with these views that I've hard come by?

                    RW

                    PS Wanna see a picture of my ride? Wanna see 7, same-time, state emission test results (on dynos), spanning 14 years, on each of the 2 fuels? Wanna see a full cost work-up of filling a new GX at home with a new Phill in the suburbs of DC as of Sept '08? If you do, you'll have to be nice(r) ...capice?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

                      Originally posted by Lakewood90712 View Post
                      RW:

                      1. As a Moderator, If I have been duped into being a shill for American Honda, I want my share of the loot L.O.L. Tell Honda I'm still waiting for the check.


                      2. Bi-fuel vehicles have sub par performance on the alternate fuel , be it CNG or Propane. They also have higher initial , maintenance and warranty costs . Just ask Ford. The Ford alternate fuel programme had the highest customer dissatisfaction and warranty costs per vehicle in Ford Motor Co. history........( Can you say "Compuvalve" ) Just try to get a new compuvalve for a bi-fuel Ford. Let us know when you find one L.O.L.
                      3. Non dedicated vehicles loose out on many incentives , like tax credits, and single occupant HOV lane access. I'm on my 3rd CNG vehicle in 8 years. Without the incentives , I would be driving a Prius.
                      90712:

                      Performance: I think this is bunk. On a 6-cyclinder-anything there is no practical difference.... unless you're racing it on Sat. nite. And, if equal performance is so excruciatingly important to you, get the M-B NGT 200. It has the exact same HP on either fuel, due to having a variable boost supercharger. A model with variable valve timing will get the same result.

                      Higher initial cost: Show me something other than one model's quirks, please. Lift your head up, oh 'o7'... Look at Opel's Zafira 1.6 CNG ecoFLEX Turbo customer satisfaction, for example. We're gonna get euroland's enviro laws, why shouldn't we get their car models, too? Also see: http://www.tanke-erdgas.de/index.php...xml&Itemid=255

                      Incentives: All true, and all done by the hand of man (mostly and particularly by the hands of our 'friends' at the AGA/ngvc.org dba NGV America: "thanks very much..."), and all able to be changed by the hand of man, overnight, if man wishes. You know?

                      HOV lanes: Tsk. Mixing traffic congestion, and beneficial alt. fuels policies is a real bad policy stew. That's simply bad law. I'd hope for more clearer-headed thinking out there in 90712 land.

                      And, hey, try to hang on to those wheels for a few more years, each, eh? haha

                      LOL: Keep laughing, my friend.

                      RW

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

                        Hey Wallace,

                        If you've driven a cng vehicle for 16 years, I'll give you a FREE PASS no matter how much you question activities of Honda!! You've given some fresh perspective on overall actions of Honda which do shine some light on whether Honda really has had the best interests of Americans these 10+ years Honda has been producing the Civic GX.

                        If you have insights on why (although I'm pretty sure I already know) that CE (Clean Energy) only goes after existing private/public cng pumps to purchase into their nationwide "network" of cng pumps. Specifically, I would be interested in WHY CE can't seem to come up with a nationwide Alternative Fuel Credit Card of their own that would work in all of USA??

                        Speak freely Wallace . . . . my motto is . . . Tell It Like It Is !!

                        But all-in-all, I'm still a CNG Zealot and speak loudly of it's great benefits . . . so I DO WANT Honda to keep selling GX's and I DO WANT the next Fuelmaker/Phill to be even more affordable, reliable, repairable, and nationwide - - - ie All Across The USA!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

                          I have no problem with your being here. As the hour is late, I'll address your comments at a later time. We tend to get suspicious when a new member comes in the way you did.

                          We get some interesting characters coming through these doors. Some have agenda's, some are just crackpots and others just have something to say... and do so without identifying themselves as not being among the former groups mentioned.

                          Some people tip-toe into the shallow end of the pool to test the waters... others cannon-ball into the deep end. Either way, welcome to the party. I hope you find the site to be interesting and informative. Lot's of good people hang out here. I think you'll enjoy their company.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Forum feature review

                            Just as a random reminder, our forum software includes the following feature:

                            1. Click on the user's name in one of the postings.
                            2. Select "view public profile"
                            3. Select "user lists"
                            4. Select "add to ignore list"

                            All posts from this person are now blocked from your view. If you want to undo this selection it can be done via the same menus once you find the member in "Members List" and "Search Members"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: CNGchat Home Page Message Queries

                              This thread has strayed well off topic, if the opening poster has ideas for the home page message window he can contact one of the moderators or admins directly. Thread closed.

                              Comment

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