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My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

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  • My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

    I've opened up a dialogue today with the Clean Cities Coalition to develope public fueling infrastructure on the Ca/Az border.

    They are, and here's their description;
    The U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Clean Cities program is a voluntary, locally based government/industry partnership to mobilize local stakeholders to expand the use of alternatives to gasoline and diesel fuel by accelerating the deployment of alternative fuel vehicles (AFVs), and building a local AFV refueling infrastructure...
    you can visit their Los Angeles website at:
    http://www.the-partnership.org/ccities.htm.

    I would encourage any business that has, or uses AFV's or infrastructure to join the Coalition. Do a computer search for the Clean Cities Coalition in your city and join up.

    Even though Blythe has been uncooperative in making their facilities available to even a desperate traveler, there are other cities in that region that are developing infrastructure and fleets. I will see what can be done to get us to Phoenix with much less coasting down hills and other extrordinary measures of fuel conservation.

    I'd love to develope a string of feedback for future use.
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  • #2
    Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

    Hi Curtis, I think that is a good idea. One thing that I think also should be done, is to petition the state government's (have CC's use their pull) about making all of the private stations (exception of first responders, police, etc.) open to the public. At that point they can charge whatever for their fuel, but it would almost double the amount of stations. I always thought it would be the most cost effective way to get the fuel out there. Kevin

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    • #3
      Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

      I like the idea but the problem I see is that most of the private stations are behind locked gates. Take Disneyland, they have a nice station but there is no way they would let you on the back lot. It just won't happen.

      Now it the state said we'll offer a grant so they can place a dispenser in a public area then I could see it happening.
      John

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      • #4
        Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

        John's right, if we lived in a perfect world, we'd have access to all the fuel stations everywhere... But we don't. Most companies don't have fuel dispensers that are legal to use for public consumption, they are in restricted areas where liability and access issues are going to make it impossible to do.

        Clean cities focus is on developing new infrastructure and promoting the use of clean fuels and infrastructure. With them promoting the advantages of entities making their stations accessible to the public, more will do so.

        The average company has no idea that there are grants and tax breaks available to them that makes a public dispencer almost free! That there are grants that will pay the difference between the price of a gasoline car and a ngv, and that the ngv will save them big time on maintenance and repairs.

        As this information finds a larger audience, things will get better for us. More stations will go public because it makes economic sense to do so. Hang in there guys. It's like I said, we are the pioneers, the pilgrims in the covered wagons. They blazed new trails as we do today. We just get to do it with the air conditioner on...
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        • #5
          Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

          Curtis, good luck with that, there are some very large truckstops on the AZ side (Eherenberg) that would be good candidates.
          Also there is a Unocal 76 truckstop a few miles west of Blythe I used to stop at on my way to Phoenix.
          I wouldn't even care if it costs a little more if it saves me from driving my 20mpg Astro-van, which I am going to replace in spring with some sort of Bi-fuel truck to tow my little jetboats.
          J
          BLUE 09 GX

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          • #6
            Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

            Also talk to the folks at Southwest Gas and see if they could be of help.

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            • #7
              Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

              Southwest doesnt even have their own station and they are the gas co. here in AZ and NV. I see them filling up all the time at Washington Schools. One way to get Clean Energy to open that Blythe station to the public is to put up another competing one near by and under cut them. Find out what the county is paying CE at that pump and just beat it. This would be a good investment for everyone. Because it would be just a matter of time until CE will swoop in and buy you out. Profits for everyone involved. I have thought about this quite a bit a CNG staion in Blythe or Quartsite and multiple stations here in AZ to compete against CE.

              CE charges what they do for several reason: First because they can, what are you going to do if you are a CNG cab driver and on CE is available to you. Two they have to pay for these super nice stations they put up (they are nice) and Three they have gone public and have shareholders now they have to satisfy.

              Just to give you an idea of how much it's marked up. $2.39 at all Phoenix CE stations Washington Schools $2.05. I spoke with the Washington people and they told me their mark up is enough to pay for all the matainance for the facilty and put money back into the school district.
              sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
              SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

              2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
              2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
              1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
              2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

              FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

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              • #8
                Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

                In my conversations with Southwest they seem to think themselves too small to be playing in the AFV arena. Ie, they can't afford to offer cng users a discounted home rate, or invest in stations apparently. It's kinda sad that a gas utility won't promote their product and invest in it.

                As far a CE goes, I wasn't able to decipher what you meant about opening a competing station in Blyth, or that area, because the only station there is a city yard. I agree that there needs to be one there, but the economics of the situation calls for a slightly different approach.

                Assisting a public entity, such as a local fleet owner, with grants and federal tax breaks to make the station public access is the most viable way to do this. That's what I'm talking to Clean Cities Coalition about.

                To speculate on the amount of traffic and simply open a CE type station would be very risky without doing a market study. There's a $100,000. Murf, you'd have an easier time opening a station yourself. You can buy a turnkey operation (used) for around $100k, another $100k to get it operational and you are in business. The AQMD can fund 90% of it and the feds will give you a 10% tax credit , up to $30k... Start looking for investors and grants, because you are right, if it turned a profit CE would be at your door with a checkbook in hand. With no competition in the area I'd be affraid to see what they'd charge there.

                Originally posted by CNG MOTORS View Post
                Southwest doesnt even have their own station and they are the gas co. here in AZ and NV. I see them filling up all the time at Washington Schools. One way to get Clean Energy to open that Blythe station to the public is to put up another competing one near by and under cut them. Find out what the county is paying CE at that pump and just beat it. This would be a good investment for everyone. Because it would be just a matter of time until CE will swoop in and buy you out. Profits for everyone involved. I have thought about this quite a bit a CNG staion in Blythe or Quartsite and multiple stations here in AZ to compete against CE.

                CE charges what they do for several reason: First because they can, what are you going to do if you are a CNG cab driver and on CE is available to you. Two they have to pay for these super nice stations they put up (they are nice) and Three they have gone public and have shareholders now they have to satisfy.

                Just to give you an idea of how much it's marked up. $2.39 at all Phoenix CE stations Washington Schools $2.05. I spoke with the Washington people and they told me their mark up is enough to pay for all the matainance for the facilty and put money back into the school district.
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                • #9
                  My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

                  These are the documents to make your business a Clean Cities Coalition Member. By joining the CCC, you increase the strength of their lobby as they work to open more public infrastructure and increase the number of AFV's in public and private fleets, as well as work to increase incentives and perks for AFV owners everywhere.

                  If you are a business, or fleet owner with NGV's in your stable, or a small company that only owns 1 CNG car, I encourage you to join forces and become a CCC member. Being a CCC member also entitles you to a special program discount on the FMQ2-36 refueling device with the purchase of one or more GX Civic's. The more you buy, the bigger the discount. From 1-4 GX's gives you a $2300 package discount on the FMQ2-36. Even if you are a 1099 employee, you can qualify for this program once you join the Clean Cities Initiative.

                  Here is the Membership Application, Membership letter, and MOU-Memorandum of Understanding (like a mission statement).
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by Curtis; 01-03-2008, 06:15 PM. Reason: same
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                  • #10
                    Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

                    Dear Curtis (and perhaps John too),

                    I don't seem to be able to open the Memorandum of Understanding. Even though I'm logged in, when I click on the link, I am transferred to a page saying that either I must log in or that I do not have access privileges. If I attempt to log in again, it just takes me back to the same page in an endless loop.

                    Please help.

                    Thanks.

                    Michael M

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                    • #11
                      Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

                      Sometimes the database has trouble keeping track of when you are logged in. Just logout, close your browser, and then log in again using the left side bar (it helps to also check the box Auto-Login). Sorry for the trouble.

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                      • #12
                        Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

                        That would be awesome if this could happen so everybody can drive out to mesa and get there extra tanks installed in their GX's. You know what would be better, if Honda dealerships could have dispensers all around So Cal and Nor Cal. If Curtis has one at his dealership why not other dealerships that sell the Honda Civic GX. That would be awesome!

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                        • #13
                          Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

                          johnlh, I have moved the Bangladesh discussion over to the Outside North America forum to keep this on the topic of CA/AZ border refueling stations.

                          Please pick up your thread there, thanks!
                          http://cngchat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1070

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

                            Curtis & other cng supporters in CA/AZ,

                            Wonder whether any progress made on public cng pump between CA & AZ?? I had emailed AFDC (Alternative Fuels Data Center) administrator about the Yucca, AZ private cng site falling off list in late 2007. She replied that Ford Proving Grounds was in process of selling it / or sold it. I sent emails to Ford, AZ elected officials like Senators & Congressmen, Governor, etc. but got no reply for my dire request to save the Yucca, AZ site to become a public cng refueling point. Since Interstate 40 between CA & AZ is critical route and last CA cng refueling point is Barstow, CA then Yucca, AZ would be a terrific refill point for cng vehicles on that route. Next would need Flagstaff, AZ then Gallup, NM then Tucumcari, NM and then Amarillo, TX to at least be able to drive cng from CA to TX or OK. Based on used cng compressor equipment I see on Ebay, looks like basic fast-fill could be done (equipment wise) for say $40,000 or $50,000 if ran by municipality or existing refueling station (ie may not be 24 hours and have brand new dispenser . . . but would do the trick). Any potential??

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                            • #15
                              Re: My next project: Open up public fueling on Ca/Az border

                              I've liked your spunk from your first post. We need more zelots in the crowd. It makes things interesting.

                              If a handshake was made on the Ca/Az plan today it would still be 18 to 24 months before the first gge was pumped. This is a painfully slow process with lots of hands to shake just to turn the first shovel of dirt. Engineers, contractors, city plan checkers, fire dept, county, city............ You get the idea.

                              I got my station done in 14 months and everyone thought I had pulled off a damn miracle. How did I get it done in under 24 mo? I basically quit selling cars and put a short leash on everyone that had anything to do with the project. Most of these projects just get put in the pipeline and everyone waits for a station to pop out the other end of the pipe. My point is that these stations take a long time to build, and I'm talking about one. Heck, you're talking about dozens. Most people don't realize that there are only a handful of companies that build stations like this across the country. They all know each other and a great many don't like the other guy for one reason or another, although I have seen a select few that work well together and compliment each others strengths. You'd be amazed at how small these companies are that build these big stations.

                              This just isn't an industry that's geared to respond quickly to what's going on in their own industry right now. There are more stations in the pipeline right now than at any time in the history of this country. If you want to speed things up... start a construction company! I believe with your enthusiasm you could build a station at the rate of about one a year. Only problem is that cities and counties move at the speed of sludge.

                              Let's see if we can get to Phoenix first... Then we can look East from there.
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