Curt -- After talking to some other members with the same frustrations, we decided to ask you personally for help & I am elected. These questions are directly for you as the cng expert. Please advise!
Is there a source for information on cng for a technician?
I have been looking for information & it is almost unavailable. I can go online (iATN, Identifix, factory websites, AllData, Mitchell, ARRC) and find wiring diagrams for any manufacturer, specifications, waveforms, discription and operation, component testing values etc. For cng not even a wiring diagram?
A good techncian bases decisions on information. What is the average burn time for cng (I am guessing 2-2.5ms) and how much does compression change burn time i/e (8 to 1 vs 11 to 1). If a system has a knock sensor that will allow timing to advance until the knock sensor retards it, does it need a special calibration for a higher octane slower burning fuel? Does the HO2S read differently for cng? If O2 voltage is in relation to unburned oxygen it seems like it should be the same. Do you need a wide band sensor, or is a Toyota type fuel sensor be better? If I am already spending 8k for cng, why not go another 3k and have the compression more closely matched to cng specifications for performance and power. If gasoline engines run 8.5 to 1 compression and cng 13 to 1, would it be prudent to build an engine at 10.5 to 1 and run premium gasoline? How does cng react to an older turbocharged vehicle or turbocharges in general? What would be the best compression vs boost pressure be? If an emission station measures grams per mile in a tailpipe sample and the monitors are set why would they reject the vehicle? If a vehicle meets emission standards for HC, CO, & NoX why would they reject it because there is not a sticker on it? What about converting older carbureted vehicles or OBDI systems? Do they need a certified kit?
I just talked to Baytech and their kits are for GM but they have no tanks, tank manufacturers provide no price list. It seems that if we can inexpensivly manufacture tanks for acetylene that can be dropped, thrown around, and bounce around in the back of trucks all across America, we should be able to manufacture cng tanks for a reasonable amount. I live in the gas fields and personally know some of the pipeline welders & they laugh about the tank situation and "how difficult" it is to weld a 1/2 inch thick metal tank!
I have been checking on-line information and reading about cng for several months and I have come to the conclusion that this is a secret society --- widely talked about without any real information being made available. Even the cng chat line offers no real information for a technician, the closest thing I have seen is the answer to a direct question about a Galelio kit & the answer "see if it is certified" and then immediatly following, we are dropping this as our agreement is to discuss certified systems only, but there was no other discussion! When I asked a direct question on cng chat about the best compression for a cng engine I received one reply from another new member looking for the same type of information I am, not even one answer from the regular cng members.
I am working right now to attend the required training for installation and tank inspection. I am ASE master certified in Auto & Truck, master Gasoline and Diesel engine machinist, Hunter master certified, FIRST and EDGE certified, LT1, LT2., plus Ford and Lincoln certification. I am serious about locating information and I want to do the job right. I have talked to IMPCO, TEECO, Galelio, Baytech, and ECO. They all give a minimum amount of information, charge the maximum amount of money and we still have to go to India for tanks? This whole cng thing just does not make any sense.
Please provide me with some avenues for specification, diagrams, procedures, equipment, etc.
Thank You
Stan M.
Is there a source for information on cng for a technician?
I have been looking for information & it is almost unavailable. I can go online (iATN, Identifix, factory websites, AllData, Mitchell, ARRC) and find wiring diagrams for any manufacturer, specifications, waveforms, discription and operation, component testing values etc. For cng not even a wiring diagram?
A good techncian bases decisions on information. What is the average burn time for cng (I am guessing 2-2.5ms) and how much does compression change burn time i/e (8 to 1 vs 11 to 1). If a system has a knock sensor that will allow timing to advance until the knock sensor retards it, does it need a special calibration for a higher octane slower burning fuel? Does the HO2S read differently for cng? If O2 voltage is in relation to unburned oxygen it seems like it should be the same. Do you need a wide band sensor, or is a Toyota type fuel sensor be better? If I am already spending 8k for cng, why not go another 3k and have the compression more closely matched to cng specifications for performance and power. If gasoline engines run 8.5 to 1 compression and cng 13 to 1, would it be prudent to build an engine at 10.5 to 1 and run premium gasoline? How does cng react to an older turbocharged vehicle or turbocharges in general? What would be the best compression vs boost pressure be? If an emission station measures grams per mile in a tailpipe sample and the monitors are set why would they reject the vehicle? If a vehicle meets emission standards for HC, CO, & NoX why would they reject it because there is not a sticker on it? What about converting older carbureted vehicles or OBDI systems? Do they need a certified kit?
I just talked to Baytech and their kits are for GM but they have no tanks, tank manufacturers provide no price list. It seems that if we can inexpensivly manufacture tanks for acetylene that can be dropped, thrown around, and bounce around in the back of trucks all across America, we should be able to manufacture cng tanks for a reasonable amount. I live in the gas fields and personally know some of the pipeline welders & they laugh about the tank situation and "how difficult" it is to weld a 1/2 inch thick metal tank!
I have been checking on-line information and reading about cng for several months and I have come to the conclusion that this is a secret society --- widely talked about without any real information being made available. Even the cng chat line offers no real information for a technician, the closest thing I have seen is the answer to a direct question about a Galelio kit & the answer "see if it is certified" and then immediatly following, we are dropping this as our agreement is to discuss certified systems only, but there was no other discussion! When I asked a direct question on cng chat about the best compression for a cng engine I received one reply from another new member looking for the same type of information I am, not even one answer from the regular cng members.
I am working right now to attend the required training for installation and tank inspection. I am ASE master certified in Auto & Truck, master Gasoline and Diesel engine machinist, Hunter master certified, FIRST and EDGE certified, LT1, LT2., plus Ford and Lincoln certification. I am serious about locating information and I want to do the job right. I have talked to IMPCO, TEECO, Galelio, Baytech, and ECO. They all give a minimum amount of information, charge the maximum amount of money and we still have to go to India for tanks? This whole cng thing just does not make any sense.
Please provide me with some avenues for specification, diagrams, procedures, equipment, etc.
Thank You
Stan M.
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