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  • Lawsuits re: EPA certification requirement (inspections, tax credits, etc.)

    Note from forum staff:
    This is a break-out thread from an original discussion on Utah Highway Patrol's decision to require EPA certifications for alt fuel conversions performed in Utah. You may wish to follow that discussion here:

    http://cngchat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=23935

    Also, here are the links for Jacks Agency Action and Complaint,

    http://icreatewow.com/pdf/McIntyreAgencyAction.pdf
    http://icreatewow.com/pdf/McIntyreComplaint05.pdf
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Looks like the lawsuits have started. I say good for them!
    Attached Files
    Last edited by John Mitton; 02-21-2009, 09:42 PM.

  • #2
    Re: New rules for Utah safety inspections in Jan. {EPA/CARB mandatory, NFPA-52 items}

    Originally posted by karlhafen View Post
    Looks like the lawsuits have started. I say good for them!
    Nothing says "I'm serious", like a law suit.

    Now, if the other 4,000 potential Plaintiff's would join in this law suit, contribute monetarily and add the publicity that would necessarily exist...this might get some much needed national attention. After all, the current EPA and CARB certification rules for CNG kits are akin to extortion of the alternative fuel industry. I realize the law suit specifically addresses new safety inspection rules requiring EPA certification of vehicles in UT, but I hope this opens the door to reviewing our broken CNG kit certification system in the US in general.

    I know many experts on this board support our current system..but let's face it, EUROPE HAS A BETTER WORKING CNG KIT CERTIFICATION approach that is safe, practical and MUCH MORE AFFORDABLE!!!

    A law suit is a good vehicle to begin addressing our broken system. I'm rooting for all Plaintiffs!!
    Last edited by Adrian; 02-04-2009, 08:55 PM.
    Adrian

    Navy 2008 Civic GX (wife's)
    Silver 2012 Toyota Prius
    Grey 2012 Civic Natural Gas (mine)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New rules for Utah safety inspections in Jan. {EPA/CARB mandatory, NFPA-52 items}

      Nothing like a good lawsuit to set presidence (sp) that can be used to help change the laws in other states. If enought states can win then it can be taken to the U.S. supreme court and maybe force changes to EPA and clean air act

      GOOD LUCK

      This is the way it should be done

      Larrycng

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New rules for Utah safety inspections in Jan. {EPA/CARB mandatory, NFPA-52 items}

        This lawsuit might help the cause in Utah. Maybe even get the new EPA leader's attention. One thing is for sure, if they fail, on top of legal bills they will have the full wrath of the EPA coming to bear on them.
        They have publicly and legally thumbed their nose at the EPA, admitting that they knowingly, illegally converted vehicles and distributed them.
        They were also kind enough to provide the EPA with their personal and business addresses when it comes time to deliver fines and seize property.
        I'm also sure the Utah Corporation Commision appreciated knowing who and were illegally operating entities are.

        This should be interesting. It will set an expensive example one way of the other.
        Hero or Martyr?
        Your Friendly Nazi Squirrel Administrator

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        • #5
          Re: New rules for Utah safety inspections in Jan. {EPA/CARB mandatory, NFPA-52 items}

          While i agree, this lawsuit by itself might change the safety inspection EPA requirement, It is highly likely it will also just lead to more EPA attention to the 'problem' in Utah. Might, on its own, not be much help to the overall cause of CNG use.

          I think, in conjunction, the State of Utah should seriously look at filing a lawsuit against the EPA in it's overly restrictive certification processes. If Gov huntsman is so fired up about his CNG Highway, it is something that should be persued. That being said, it is highly unlikely it will ever help the situation out here in CA.
          1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
          2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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          • #6
            Re: New rules for Utah safety inspections in Jan. {EPA/CARB mandatory, NFPA-52 items}

            Gentleman I know the attorneys who filed that lawsuit quite well. The team at McIntyre & Golden does not file lawsuits to lose. In addition, there are actually two suits that were filed, one for the State inspection rule and one for the tax credit. The credit (Agency action) is the more interesting because it proves that EPA does not require certification, one of the exhibits is a document from EPA that states they do not require certification. This ought to be a good show. Also, with regard to previous post about EPA delivering fines and seizing property, since this country is no longer an English province EPA cannot simply deliver fines and steal property. The individual Plaintiff's in the lawsuit take the position they have done nothing illegal. It would appear they are correct since that position is consistent with EPA's written documentation.
            Last edited by kim1; 02-07-2009, 07:45 PM.

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            • #7
              Second lawsuit re: tax credit

              Thank you karlhafen for posting the first lawsuit re: safety inspection. Does anyone have a copy of the second lawsuit which supposedly has a document from EPA stating that certification is not required?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Lawsuits re: EPA certification requirement (inspections, tax credits, etc.)

                John, The first lawsuit was filed a few weeks ago, it contended that Jack should be able to receive the tax credits even without a EPA Kit. I will see if I can find a copy. Jim
                Jim Younkin
                www.younkincng.com

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                • #9
                  Re: Lawsuits re: EPA certification requirement (inspections, tax credits, etc.)

                  I am told Department of public safety has until February 25 to answer the lawsuit.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    DEQ Agency Action

                    Could someone contact Teri Weiss to get a copy of the Agency Action against DEQ over the tax credit? I'm heading out of town or would go down there and make a copy to post for everyone (it's 5 cents a page).

                    http://www.deq.utah.gov/GRAMA.htm
                    http://www.deq.utah.gov/docs/DAQ_GRAMA_Request.pdf

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Lawsuits re: EPA certification requirement (inspections, tax credits, etc.)

                      John and all, Jack sent me a copy of the Agency Action, I will send it to anyone interested, it is a large file, 98 pages. Send me an E Mail at [email protected] and put Agency Action in the Subject line. It is very interesting reading, Jim
                      801 427 2284
                      Jim Younkin
                      www.younkincng.com

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                      • #12
                        Re: Lawsuits re: EPA certification requirement (inspections, tax credits, etc.)

                        Jim,
                        Can you simply post it here? Look for the "Manage Attachments" button below the text input box. Thanks!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Lawsuits re: EPA certification requirement (inspections, tax credits, etc.)

                          I tried to attache the Agency Action file but got an error code, apparently the file was too large. again just E Mail me for a copy, Jim
                          [email protected]
                          Jim Younkin
                          www.younkincng.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Lawsuits re: EPA certification requirement (inspections, tax credits, etc.)

                            Good reading indeed.

                            I find the position taken by the EPA that a CNG kit is "tampering" with the emission system UNLESS it is certified by the EPA especially disgusting. Never mind actual emissions, never mind the same components are used in EPA or non-EPA kits...this is about the EPA getting its cut of the money. Every year of course. The argument is especially ridiculous for a kit certified by the EPA one year, and therefore considered "non-tampering" that year and if the "protection money" is not paid to the "EPA mob" for the subsequent year....Well the exact same kit is now "tampering"....until the EPA gets its money...then it's all good. How does this differ from organized crime tactics? Never mind Equity, never mind logic or the actual benefits for the US as a whole if these moron bureaucrats at the EPA would actually do what is right. Then we wonder why this country is in a mess right now. Continuing to do the wrong thing is not going to make things better...just worse.
                            Last edited by Adrian; 02-12-2009, 11:58 AM.
                            Adrian

                            Navy 2008 Civic GX (wife's)
                            Silver 2012 Toyota Prius
                            Grey 2012 Civic Natural Gas (mine)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Lawsuits re: EPA certification requirement (inspections, tax credits, etc.)

                              I have read the request for agency action and it would appear that when the Utah Air Board adopted the State Implemantation plan after it was approved by EPA and it had a provision that recognizes a test after fuel switching that must be a test recognized by the board, and therefore in compliance with the statute providing a tax credit.

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