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Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

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  • Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

    I spoke yesterday with a gentleman from the Morgan-Weber Health Department in the Emissions Division. He told me that when you take your vehicle in for emissions inspection, if it is a vehicle that runs on CNG, then you must show the technician your EPA certificate to pass inspections. I mentioned to him that I own a Chevy Cavalier and that it is an OEM, and that I do not have an EPA certificate. He said that all they need see is the EPA sticker on the inside of the hood. This sticker (on a Cavalier) is located on the passenger side shock tower with the Impco label.

    Hopefully the other counties will follow along and check for non-EPA certified conversions. This will eliminate the unsafe conversions that we have going up and down I-15. I saw an F-250 (not an OEM) CNG vehicle filling up in Brigham on Monday. All he had holding his tank down was a piece of wood and a U-bolt. SCARY!!
    Jared.
    Mountain Green, Utah
    2003 CNG Cavalier
    2003 CNG Silverado 2500HD

  • #2
    Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

    I guess I won't register my Ford Expedition in Weber county anytime soon. The Ford was done in Arizona's hay day of natural gas conversions. The funny thing is, my Expedition has better CNG emissions than my bi-fuel 2003 cavalier when running on CNG. Or does my Option 3 Ford qualify as EPA approved?
    Last edited by Steve; 08-28-2008, 02:14 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

      Originally posted by Steve View Post
      I guess I won't register my Ford Expedition in Weber county anytime soon. The Ford was done in Arizona's hay day of natural gas conversions. The funny thing is, my Expedition has better CNG emissions than my bi-fuel 2003 cavalier when running on CNG. Or does my Option 3 Ford qualify as EPA approved?
      Steve,

      Even though the state does not allow an "Option 3" vehicle to be eligible for the tax credit, if you can prove that the conversion was done legally under an EPA regulation, then you might get the Morgan-Weber Health Department to accept your conversion. I would contact them at 801-399-7252.
      Jared.
      Mountain Green, Utah
      2003 CNG Cavalier
      2003 CNG Silverado 2500HD

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

        Conversions done under option 3 should technically be able to get the tax credit '(I got mine!!) All these changes are relatively new (may 08) and are lame political moves to enforce what is NOT LAW (there is nothing in the tax credit that says it has to be EPA, though it is being interpreted that way). I will not write more, as this site will ban or delete. People could stand to get involved, get laws to be enforced as written... Most CNG owners would benefit, but we seem to do what we're told, and believe what is written here...lame...
        2000 Escalade (option 3 conversion) FOR SALE
        2004 F150 XLT (OEM conversion)
        2000 Camry (Awesome Car!!)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

          Originally posted by Yroc View Post
          Conversions done under option 3 should technically be able to get the tax credit '(I got mine!!) All these changes are relatively new (may 08) and are lame political moves to enforce what is NOT LAW (there is nothing in the tax credit that says it has to be EPA, though it is being interpreted that way). I will not write more, as this site will ban or delete. People could stand to get involved, get laws to be enforced as written... Most CNG owners would benefit, but we seem to do what we're told, and believe what is written here...lame...
          Yroc, you are wrong.

          The requirement to show EPA certification to receive a tax credit is within the Utah State Code:

          (http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/c...307-121.htm#T4)
          R307-121-4. Procedures for Vehicles Converted to Clean Fuels.

          To demonstrate that a conversion of a motor vehicle to be fueled by clean fuel is eligible, proof of purchase shall be made by submitting the following documentation to the executive secretary:

          (1) VIN;
          (2) fuel type before conversion;
          (3) fuel type after conversion;
          (4)(a) if within a county with an I/M program, a copy of the vehicle inspection report from an approved station showing that the converted alternate fuel vehicle meets all county emissions requirements for all installed fuel systems, or
          (b) a signed statement by an ASE certified technician that includes the VIN and states that the conversion is functional;
          (5) each of the following:
          (a) conversion system manufacturer,
          (b) conversion system model number,
          (c) date of the conversion, and
          (d) name, address, and phone number of the person that converted the vehicle;
          (6) proof of certification required in 59-10-1009(1)(b) or 59-7-605(1)(b); and
          (7) a copy of the vehicle registration.

          _____________________________________
          (http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE59/htm/59_10_100900.htm)
          59-10-1009 (Superseded 01/01/09). Definitions -- Cleaner burning fuels tax credit.
          (1) As used in this section:
          (a) "Board" means the Air Quality Board created in Title 19, Chapter 2, Air Conservation Act.
          (b) "Certified by the board" means that:
          (i) a motor vehicle on which conversion equipment has been installed meets the following criteria:
          (A) before the installation of conversion equipment, the vehicle does not exceed the emission cut points for a transient test driving cycle, as specified in 40 C.F.R. Part 51, Appendix E to Subpart S, or an equivalent test for the make, model, and year of the vehicle;
          (B) the motor vehicle's emissions of regulated pollutants, when operating on fuels listed in Subsection (2)(a)(ii)(A) or (2)(a)(ii)(B), is less than the emissions were before the installation of conversion equipment; and
          (C) a reduction in emissions under Subsection (1)(b)(i)(B) is demonstrated by:
          (I) certification of the conversion equipment by the federal Environmental Protection Agency or by a state whose certification standards are recognized by the board;
          (II) testing the motor vehicle, before and after installation of the conversion equipment, in accordance with 40 C.F.R. Part 86, Control Emissions from New and In-use Highway Vehicles and Engines, using all fuels the motor vehicle is capable of using; or
          (III) any other test or standard recognized by board rule; or
          (ii) special mobile equipment on which conversion equipment has been installed meets the following criteria:
          (A) the special mobile equipment's emissions of regulated pollutants, when operating on fuels listed in Subsection (2)(a)(iii)(A) or (2)(a)(iii)(B), is less than the emissions were before the installation of conversion equipment; and
          (B) a reduction in emissions under Subsection (1)(b)(ii)(A) is demonstrated by:
          (I) certification of the conversion equipment by the federal Environmental Protection Agency or by a state whose certification standards are recognized by the board; or
          (II) any other test or standard recognized by the board.
          (c) "Clean fuel grant" means a grant a claimant, estate, or trust receives under Title 19, Chapter 1, Part 4, Clean Fuels and Vehicle Technology Program Act, for reimbursement of a portion of the incremental cost of the OEM vehicle or the cost of conversion equipment.
          (d) "Conversion equipment" means equipment referred to in Subsection (2)(a)(ii) or (2)(a)(iii).
          (e) "Electric-hybrid vehicle" is as defined in 42 U.S.C. Sec. 13435.
          (f) "Incremental cost" has the same meaning as in Section 19-1-402.
          (g) "OEM vehicle" has the same meaning as in Section 19-1-402.
          (h) "Special mobile equipment":
          (i) means any mobile equipment or vehicle not designed or used primarily for the transportation of persons or property; and
          (ii) includes construction or maintenance equipment.
          (2) (a) Except as provided in Subsection (2)(b), for taxable years beginning on or after January 1, 2001, but beginning on or before December 31, 2010, a claimant, estate, or trust may claim a nonrefundable tax credit against tax otherwise due under this chapter in an amount equal to:
          __________________________________________________
          (http://le.utah.gov/~code/FTITL59/htm..._01-01-09).htm)
          _______________________________________________
          (http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE59/htm/59_07_060500.htm)

          59-7-605 (Superseded 01/01/09). Definitions -- Tax credit -- Cleaner burning fuels.
          (1) As used in this section:
          (a) "Board" means the Air Quality Board created under Title 19, Chapter 2, Air Conservation Act.
          (b) "Certified by the board" means that:
          (i) a motor vehicle on which conversion equipment has been installed meets the following criteria:
          (A) before the installation of conversion equipment, the vehicle does not exceed the emission cut points for a transient test driving cycle, as specified in 40 C.F.R. Part 51, Appendix E to Subpart S, or an equivalent test for the make, model, and year of the vehicle;
          (B) the motor vehicle's emissions of regulated pollutants, when operating on a fuel listed in Subsection (2)(a)(ii)(A) or (2)(a)(ii)(B), is less than the emissions were before the installation of conversion equipment; and
          (C) a reduction in emissions under Subsection (1)(b)(i)(B) is demonstrated by:
          (I) certification of the conversion equipment by the federal Environmental Protection Agency or by a state whose certification standards are recognized by the board;
          (II) testing the motor vehicle, before and after installation of the conversion equipment, in accordance with 40 C.F.R. Part 86, Control of Emissions from New and In-use Highway Vehicles and Engines, using all fuel the motor vehicle is capable of using; or
          (III) any other test or standard recognized by board rule; or
          (ii) special mobile equipment on which conversion equipment has been installed meets the following criteria:
          (A) the special mobile equipment's emissions of regulated pollutants, when operating on fuels listed in Subsection (2)(a)(iii)(A) or (2)(a)(iii)(B), is less than the emissions were before the installation of conversion equipment; and
          (B) a reduction in emissions under Subsection (1)(b)(ii)(A) is demonstrated by:
          (I) certification of the conversion equipment by the federal Environmental Protection Agency or by a state whose certification standards are recognized by the board; or
          (II) any other test or standard recognized by board rule.
          (c) "Clean fuel grant" means a grant awarded under Title 19, Chapter 1, Part 4, Clean Fuels and Vehicle Technology Program Act, for reimbursement of a portion of the incremental cost of an OEM vehicle or the cost of conversion equipment.
          (d) "Conversion equipment" means equipment referred to in Subsection (2)(a)(ii) or (2)(a)(iii).
          (e) "Electric-hybrid vehicle" is as defined in 42 U.S.C. Sec. 13435.
          (f) "Incremental cost" has the same meaning as in Section 19-1-402.
          (g) "OEM vehicle" has the same meaning as in Section 19-1-402.
          (h) "Special mobile equipment":
          (i) means any mobile equipment or vehicle that is not designed or used primarily for the transportation of persons or property; and
          (ii) includes construction or maintenance equipment.
          (2) (a) Except as provided in Subsection (2)(b), for taxable years beginning on or after January 1, 2001, but beginning on or before December 31, 2010, a taxpayer may claim a tax credit against tax otherwise due under this chapter or Chapter 8, Gross Receipts Tax on Certain Corporations Not Required to Pay Corporate Franchise or Income Tax Act, in an amount equal
          _____________________________________
          (http://le.utah.gov/~code/FTITL59/htm..._01-01-09).htm)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

            Another good source of tax-credit related information:

            http://www.airquality.utah.gov/Plann..._Credit_QA.htm

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

              Here is the official documentation from the Weber-Morgan Health Department.
              Attached Files
              Jared.
              Mountain Green, Utah
              2003 CNG Cavalier
              2003 CNG Silverado 2500HD

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

                Luke,

                uh yeah, that's all new as of May 2008 when the EPA came in and forced Utah to follow suit (everything you posted up there from Utah's website is ALL NEW. That's how they are 'interpreting' the law now) It's not right, but it's the way it is. They made changes to the way things were done without any changes in laws or anything. Are you saying I didn't get my tax credit? Cause I did, I have the paperwork and it's already been taken.... Thanks for you LARGE copy and paste, I am well aware of all that hoopala, would be interesting to know who actually wrote it.
                Last edited by Yroc; 09-04-2008, 05:12 PM.
                2000 Escalade (option 3 conversion) FOR SALE
                2004 F150 XLT (OEM conversion)
                2000 Camry (Awesome Car!!)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

                  Yroc,

                  I know that the state was allowing anybody and everybody with a CNG vehicle to take the tax credit. I have a co-worker who owns a 2000 Chevy truck that he bought from Arizona that was converted under Option 3. He got his tax credit on it last year. But as of now, the state is only allowing EPA certified conversions or OEM vehicles the tax credit. If you submitted your paparwork before the state began cracking down on this, then I believe you are good to go. I am just as confused as you are about how the state can change the way it hands out tax credits without changing the law. Now, I just want to be legal. I don't want to buy a vehicle and not be able to register it because it doesn't pass emissions because it is not EPA certified.
                  Jared.
                  Mountain Green, Utah
                  2003 CNG Cavalier
                  2003 CNG Silverado 2500HD

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

                    Yroc,

                    When you mentioned it was not in the law, I stated you were wrong because it clearly states in the Utah state code (aka the Utah state law) that EPA certification, or another certification recognized by the division of air quality, is required for the tax credit. The topic regarding the May 2008 change in the law and/or enforcement of the law is a separate issue. It would be interesting to see what bill(s) authorized the changes to the state code, etc.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

                      DAR File No. 29797 (http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/b...0501/29797.htm) details changes made to R307-121 in 2007 (previous revision was 2003). Multiple references in the crossed out 2003 revision included EPA requirements.

                      FYI: the 2003 version also referenced anti-tampering laws "No person may convert a motor vehicle to use a clean fuel in a manner that violates Section 203(a) of the Act or the "Interim Tampering Enforcement Policy" of the Environmental Protection Agency, June 15, 1974." That I do not see in the latest version of the code.

                      It would be interesting to compile a time line of changes to the state code.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

                        Either way, is it right?? My legal guy has told me there is NO LAW that says you have to have an epa certification to receive your tax credit. Also, there is no law saying that we have to follow EPA regulations. They are a voluntary organization and there memos are not law.

                        I'm no law guru, but I do believe that they will be facing legal action with all this undue regulation. The EPA has done things like this before, has been taken to court and has lost.

                        In the last year I've wondered why they have not enforced any of their rules, not one. They are however trying to get Utah to enforce them, but I believe that they know what they are doing is wrong and in court would lose. The argument would go something like this,

                        'yes, I converted my car to run on CNG, I followed NFPA52 and all DOT regulations, the vehicle runs properly on CNG and POLLUTES LESS and is SAFE, isn't this what the EPA should be supporting?'

                        They EPA tries to explain their side. The judge doesn't see their point (do they have one?? aside from $$) as they are supposed to have the environment in their best interest.

                        THE END
                        Last edited by Yroc; 09-04-2008, 05:53 PM. Reason: spelling
                        2000 Escalade (option 3 conversion) FOR SALE
                        2004 F150 XLT (OEM conversion)
                        2000 Camry (Awesome Car!!)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

                          Originally posted by Yroc View Post
                          'yes, I converted my car to run on CNG, I followed NFPA52 and all DOT regulations, the vehicle runs properly on CNG and POLLUTES LESS and is SAFE, isn't this what the EPA should be supporting?'
                          The question EPA would then ask is "Great, show us some lab data to back up your claim of polluting less. And while you are at it show us some data to prove the emissions control devices all work on your new fuel so we can be assured the vehicle will continue to pollute less up to the end of its useful life."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

                            Originally posted by John Mitton View Post
                            The question EPA would then ask is "Great, show us some lab data to back up your claim of polluting less. And while you are at it show us some data to prove the emissions control devices all work on your new fuel so we can be assured the vehicle will continue to pollute less up to the end of its useful life."
                            "Lab Data" Okay, its called a safety and emissions inspection. Isn't that what a safety and emissions is, to make sure your vehicle is safe, and is burning clean, or has acceptable emissions now, and the rest of the life of the vehicle?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Weber County now checking for EPA certifed conversions

                              Originally posted by John Mitton View Post
                              The question EPA would then ask is "Great, show us some lab data to back up your claim of polluting less. And while you are at it show us some data to prove the emissions control devices all work on your new fuel so we can be assured the vehicle will continue to pollute less up to the end of its useful life."
                              Yes, they have already been done, I included the paperwork with the sold vehicles. So if I put an aftermarket air filter in my gas car, do i have to prove that the emissions will pollute less upto the end of it's useful life?? Yeah, I know what the EPA's argument is, the conversions work as well or better than regular gas, so yes, it will pollute less upto the end of it's useful life.

                              Also about the tax credit. My dad just got his credit on his option 3 conversion, a 2000 durango, so yes you can get tax credits for option 3 conversions contrary to what others have said here.

                              When it comes to CNG and right and wrong, everything is all talk no action. I've wondered if anything would ever change, but it seems to be the same, just the talk has changed. The real issue in Utah is getting fuel, people won't be doing as many conversion cause they can't get gas, but so far I haven't seen any conversions being pulled off the road or not being able to register (most can get cars registered with tint that is too dark, lifts that are too high), I don't see having CNG being any different, especially when people realize that it's just another hoop to keep us on foreign oil, so they will pass you cause we should be able to use the fuel we have.....
                              2000 Escalade (option 3 conversion) FOR SALE
                              2004 F150 XLT (OEM conversion)
                              2000 Camry (Awesome Car!!)

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