Davis County I/M Directive 11 June 2008

[vaughnr007]

I heard a rumor that Davis County sent out a directive concerning CNG vehicles. I contacted the Health department and they sent the attached directive.
The important sentances:
There has been significant interest lately in the conversion of gasoline powered vehicles to compressed natural gas (CNG) utilizing kits. Kits installed in vehicles must be certified by the USEPA or CARB, and must be installed by a certified system retrofitter.

It doesn't exactly direct the technician not to pass the I/M but who knows? I'll try to get some more information tomorrow.

Has anybody been hasseled for having a conversion kit installed?
RV

[Luke]

Re: Davis County I/M Directive 11 June 2008

It was well known that non EPA/CARB certified conversions were seen as illegal tampering of vehicle emissions systems. This is one reason why this site has not promoted the furtherance of non-EPA certified kits/installers. Hats off to Davis County for enforcing the laws before too many people get suckered in to buying non-certified kits. The state started by denying tax credits to those without certified kits, yet installers continue to pop up (likely due to cheap fuel, unavailability of new vehicles and uninformed consumers). Let this be another warning/reminder: Do not buy or install non-certified conversions!

[Highmarker]

Re: Davis County I/M Directive 11 June 2008

It won't take long for other counties to follow suit.

[SuperRunner]

Re: Davis County I/M Directive 11 June 2008

I do a lot of engine conversions(not CNG stuff) that I take to the Bureau of Air Quality due to TAMPERING. I have never had a conversion fail, even with altered emission equipment. My conversions usually run better and have fewer emissions anyway.

So in the way of CNG conversions. What does one have to do to become "Certified?"(nevermind, I found the answer. ASE F1)

Also, if a kit isn't available for a vehicle, is there a GENERIC certified kit?

[macsims]

Re: Davis County I/M Directive 11 June 2008

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand there is nothing illegal about owning a vehicle that has a non-EPA kit, it's illegal to INSTALL a non-EPA kit.

If the EPA isn't going to follow-through with their own rules and go after the installers, then why should counties be going after end-users that most likely don't even know whether they have an EPA kit or not. These vehicles that have non-EPA kits are still putting less pollution into the air than if they were burning gasoline. I'm perplexed as to why the counties would care. If this is such a big deal (which I personally am not convinced it is) then the EPA should enforce their rules and penalize violators (the installers.)

My 2-bits.

[Highmarker]

Re: Davis County I/M Directive 11 June 2008

I do a lot of engine conversions(not CNG stuff) that I take to the Bureau of Air Quality due to TAMPERING. I have never had a conversion fail, even with altered emission equipment. My conversions usually run better and have fewer emissions anyway.

So in the way of CNG conversions. What does one have to do to become "Certified?"(nevermind, I found the answer. ASE F1)

Also, if a kit isn't available for a vehicle, is there a GENERIC certified kit?

SuperRunner,

Not only should the kit installers be ASE CNG certified, but they have to be certified by the kit manufacturers to even buy the kits.

No, there is no GENERIC certified kit. A kit must be certified for a specific make/model/engine/year.

[Highmarker]

Re: Davis County I/M Directive 11 June 2008

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand there is nothing illegal about owning a vehicle that has a non-EPA kit, it's illegal to INSTALL a non-EPA kit.

If the EPA isn't going to follow-through with their own rules and go after the installers, then why should counties be going after end-users that most likely don't even know whether they have an EPA kit or not. These vehicles that have non-EPA kits are still putting less pollution into the air than if they were burning gasoline. I'm perplexed as to why the counties would care. If this is such a big deal (which I personally am not convinced it is) then the EPA should enforce their rules and penalize violators (the installers.)

My 2-bits.

macsims,

I beg to differ on your statement. I believer the owner of the vehicle is held responsible for the "tampering" of emissions, even if he has no idea who did the installation. I have heard it is up to a $10,000/day fine for this violation. The EPA is working on enforcing this issue. I know they have had talks with the Dept. of Air Quality, local CNG conversion shops, Questar, and the Utah Clean Cities Coalition.

[John Mitton]

It's $2,500 per vehicle for do-it-yourselfers. The $10k per day is the punitive fine for installers who willfully make a business of installing them.

[krnorth]

Re: Davis County I/M Directive 11 June 2008

So help me if I understand this correctly.....

You're telling me that for example..Uintah Fireplace whom installs NON certified EPA kits on all these vehicles they have been selling can potentially be fined $10,000 per occurance ?? They've sold about a ton of vehicles with these non certified kits....

Is this accurate? I'd love the EPA to step in and other agencies to protect our safety and such....who knows what these kits do over the long term...especially if a faulty installer/kit is put in a vehicle and it blows up when refueling.

[John Mitton]

You hit the nail on the head

knorth,
Well spoken. This is not just about emissions but most importantly about safety. Many of these installers have no clue regarding safety standards. They are going to kill someone at this rate, see my post here:

http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13012&postcount=9

[moabrules1]

Re: Davis County I/M Directive 11 June 2008

So to be crystal clear, I have a downpayment with Uintah. It seems it would be prudent of me to run for the hills and avoid this deal. It kind of sucks because I'd love to join the CNG revolution.

[krnorth]

Re: Davis County I/M Directive 11 June 2008

So to be crystal clear, I have a downpayment with Uintah. It seems it would be prudent of me to run for the hills and avoid this deal. It kind of sucks because I'd love to join the CNG revolution.

moabrules: Well, I think that's a decision you should make yourself.

I have seen several people back out of these conversion kits. Just because they are called "Uintah Fireplace" and they may deal with Natural Gas fireplaces and such does NOT mean they have experience dealing with Natural Gas kits and conversion on a vehicle....one of the biggest differences between Natural Gas in your home and Natural Gas for a vehicle is the fact your house is not connected to a 3000+ PSI Cylinder that improperly installed/maintained could potentially EXPLODE on YOU and others at the pump. Mind us that Natural gas coming into a house is very safe as is the one coming into your car..it's all about the knowhow and safety issues these NON certified kits and NON certified installers do BLATENTLY ignore.

My best advice is to RUN or buy a REAL factory or AUTHORIZED/EPA Certified kit from someone who is experienced (and more importantly AUTHORIZED). If you need help getting your money back I would just advise them of the $10,000 fine and the $2,500 fine YOU could potentially be hit with as well.

Let us know what you decide.

[moabrules1]

Re: Davis County I/M Directive 11 June 2008

It's pretty obvious. I need to run for the hills. I'm really glad a bud of mine mentioned this to me today. I was very close to making a big mistake.