OREGON fuel in Medford Roseburg Eugene Salem Tualatin Portland

[300mileclub]

FUELING IN OREGON

I made two unsuccessful attempts to cross OREGON to reach WASHINGTON from CA end of last year (but did prove that a 2004 GX with the usual range of 200 miles could make it across the Siskiyou Pass between CHICO CA and MEDFORD OR - 218 miles/4300 elevation - if driven at 50 mph on tires inflated to their maximum getting over 50 mpg.) The first north bound trip ended at MEDFORD OR and the second trip turned around in SALEM OR. (Let me add that the lowest rolling resistance tires are listed at tirerack.com using the GOODYEAR INTEGRITY as a comparison baseline.)

I want to clarify one thing and suggest an approach to open up more fueling stations in OR. I am the person mentioned in the earlier post "...one of our members discovered Cherriots (SALEM) and was helped out, sparing him running out of fuel..." but I DID NOT REFUEL at the Cherriot Bus yard in SALEM only because all of the supervisors who could offer authorization were at an all day meeting. They invited me to do so next time if I check in advance. I "discovered" the bus yard after seeing a CNG city bus in town.

ODOT (State of Oregon Dept of Transportation) in Salem only offered me fuel on a "test vehicle" basis if I offered to send back a form with the quantity of my next fillup and the miles driven so they could file the result with their study of CNG vehicles for their motorpool. It turns out, I may have used the 3000 psi hose instead of the 3600 hose because I only made it back to ROSEBURG where I got an unmeasured amount of fuel from someone I knew in the area with a small compressor setup. So I wasn't even able to give ODOT an acurate gas mileage for their study.

How did I find all these fueling sources in OREGON? Well, I was so fearful of running out before I left on the trip that I obtained the name/address of any CNG site listed in OREGON on www .eere.energy.gov/afdc/fuels/natural_gas_locations.html They are:

Medford Avista Utilities 580 Business Park Dr Debbie Williams: do not have public service 541-858-4773 541-858-4772
Medford Rogue ValleyTrans Dist 3200 Crater Lake Av bus depot 3000psi open MF 5-8 cash only 541 779 5821 PMfill
Medford Jackson County Motorpool 808 W. Main St 541 774 6960 Public cash only-Call ahead 503-378-2307 or 4377 AMfill
Roseburg Avista Utilities 1404 Green Siding Rd 541-672-1619 Not yet accessible
Eugene ORE DAS MOTOR POOL 3233 Franklin Bv 97403 Private-Govt Only (facility being sold)

Salem, OR Cherriot bus yard 503 588 2424 Mike Hansen Supv CNG BUSES between Van Ness Av NE and Salem Industrial Dr NE on east side of Del Webb:CANNOT offer fillup on short notice -- try making advance planning
Salem Service Center 3123 Broadway St NE PRIVATE ONLY A dozen slow fill hoses in their yard and a 25 gal tank on a hand truck they can take out in the field.
Salem OR D.A.S. Fleet Administration 1100 Airport Rd. S.E. 503-373-7790 Richard Maxwell Facilities Operations Specialist
Tualatin South Center 19200 SW Teton Av Private Access Only
Tualatin T Service Center 7100 SW McEwan Rd, Tualatin OR Private access only
Hillsboro Sunset Service Center 20605 NW Cornell Road Access: Private access only
Hillsboro Pacific Pride Cardlock - Bretthauer Oil Company 21180 NW Amberwood Dr (CNG pump being phased out)

Portland I5 Ore Das Motor Pool 6400 N Cutter Circle (Disconnected 503-240-5661) Private - government only
Portland I5 Northwest Natural Gas Central Service Center 2630 SE 9th Av 503-721-2472 Access: Public - card key at all times
Portland I205 MT Scott Service Center 9222 SE Knapp Street Type of Access: Private access only
Portland PDX(airport) I205 Parkrose Service Center 12120 NE Inverness Dr Access: Private access only
Portland Sunset Service Center 20605 NW Cornell Road Access: Private access only

So, there you have it. 17 locations, including a road response portable tank in Salem. I invite others to get into gear with letters and calls to see if we can interest any of the locations to help out on a short term basis until some public facilities open.

Bill Stallman

[freedml]

Re: OREGON fuel in Medford Roseburg Eugene Salem Tualatin Portland

Ah, the 'good ol, bad ol' days of CNG when you had to jump through hoops (during business hours) to get fuel in some places.

[Jay98]

Re: OREGON fuel in Medford Roseburg Eugene Salem Tualatin Portland

Still jumping through hoops here 24/7.

[lookintoconvert]

Re: OREGON fuel in Medford Roseburg Eugene Salem Tualatin Portland

Why it so hard to get quality fueling stations in Oregon? Is it:
A) A lack of demand
B) Oregon regulations make it difficult to open a service station
or
C) Something else entirely

[kieranmullen]

Re: OREGON fuel in Medford Roseburg Eugene Salem Tualatin Portland

Speaking with Bretthauer Oil, they said it was demand. However if it was already sintalled what would it cost to keep it installed? Additional insurance?
Perhaps these long running costs also keep it from putting up new ones?

Why it so hard to get quality fueling stations in Oregon? Is it:
A) A lack of demand
B) Oregon regulations make it difficult to open a service station
or
C) Something else entirely

[doajvaf]

Re: OREGON fuel in Medford Roseburg Eugene Salem Tualatin Portland

(Removed link to Google Street View showing service station, won't let me post it.)

Has anyone tried fueling at the Northwest Natural Gas Central Service Center?
I've emailed them asking if I need an access card to fuel or not.

Thanks!

[cnguser]

Re: OREGON fuel in Medford Roseburg Eugene Salem Tualatin Portland

You have hit the sore spot for CNG along the I-5 corridor: Oregon & SW Washington are the missing links.

Check the cngchat's cngprices.com for the most current list of public facilities to see the gap. FYI the NW Natural facility in SE Portland shut down some years ago, where I used to fuel. The Bretthauer Oil facility in Hillsboro sort of replaced it, but now is no more as you found out.
Hopefully down the road somethng can be arranged with Cherriot Bus in Salem or Port of Portland at the Portland International Airport (serves the long term CNG parking busses). Unfortunately for now the hype in Oregon is for electric vehicles...
Send me a PM if you want to further discuss,
cnguser

[doajvaf]

Re: OREGON fuel in Medford Roseburg Eugene Salem Tualatin Portland

(Removed link to Google Street View showing service station, won't let me post it.)
Has anyone tried fueling at the Northwest Natural Gas Central Service Center?
I've emailed them asking if I need an access card to fuel or not.

Thanks!

Did you get anywhere on this? I'd love to be able to drive to Portland.

Thanks!

[300mileclub]

Re: OREGON fuel in Medford Roseburg Eugene Salem Tualatin Portland

With the Bretthauer CNG pump in Hillsboro, Oregon and the Pierce Transit CNG station in Lakewood, WA no longer available, a drive from Chico, CA to Seattle, WA will now require two new private stations be built in Oregon. I visited MICRO-DESIGN in Dallas TX to find that their CNG767 fast fueling pump (on a skid needing only 220 single phase and a natural gas supply line), dispenser (with fill hose), and single spherical storage tank (supplied from Oklahoma) are under $120,000. The property (buy, lease), permits, and staffing costs still need to be developed.

Alternatively, if the owner of one of the six private stations (below) in the Portland area can be convinced to allow the public to fuel, only one private station is needed somewhere near Eugene. I am in California, so I cannot verify that the NW Natural Gas station now showing at www.cngprices.com is valid.

No stations would be needed for the West Coast route if the Oregon State Motor Pool would allow public fueling at their facilities in Eugene, Salem, and Portland. I think putting in private stations would be easier than getting the government to revise its policy.

Portland area private stations from https://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/fue...locations.html

Tualatin South Center 19200 SW Teton Av Private Access Only
Tualatin T Service Center 7100 SW McEwan Rd Private access only
Hillsboro Sunset Service Center 20605 NW Cornell Road Private access only
Portland I5 Northwest Natural Gas Central Service Center 2630 SE 9th Av Public - card key at all times
Portland I205 MT Scott Service Center 9222 SE Knapp St Private access only
Portland PDX(airport) I205 Parkrose Service Center 12120 NE Inverness Dr Private access only

[cnguser]

Re: OREGON fuel in Medford Roseburg Eugene Salem Tualatin Portland

The US DOE site listed is one source for CNG fueling info, but does have errors.
The NW Natural Gas Central Service Center does NOT have public fueling, card or no card. It was shut down years ago. Verification can be made by calling the NW Natrual rep at the number posted on cngprices.com

As for other potential future facilities that could be explored for establishing public use:
Port of Portland economy lot parking shuttle buses at Portland International Airport - run on CNG and have a private fueling facility.
City of Wilsonville has installed a FuelMaker CNG fueler for 3 small buses it will put into operation later this year. For now I understand the fueler is not in use...
Perhaps Clean Energy could make a public dispenser for these, similar to the one they have at Pierce Transit in Lakewood, WA, that is now down due to the explosion in Feb...

[300mileclub]

Re: OREGON fuel in Medford Roseburg Eugene Salem Tualatin Portland

The 26 Sep 2011 natural gas vehicle road trip across Oregon (a favorite region due to the lack of public fueling) using a 2004 Honda Civic GX showed a ten percent improvement in fuel economy using the Bridgestone B381 tire. This is in comparison to the same trip in 2009 using the Goodyear Integrity tire (which is standard on Prius hybrids.)

Distance of the run and the pressure drop in the fuel tank measured were:
215 miles 2160psi Chico - Medford (Siskiyou summit 4310)
216 1900 Medford - Salem (
190 2000 Salem - Seattle

The 2009 trip had 200 psi less in the fuel tank when reaching Salem from Medford. An oil filled tank pressure gage installed by AFTech Huntington Beach CA was used for test measurements. Cruise control was set at 60 mph for all runs. RPM was held to below 3000 when climbing mountain passes, sometimes bringing speed down to 40mph (just like the big rigs.) Tires on both trips were inflated to 41 psi to allow road heat to increase pressure to the 44 psi maximum. (1)

The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has developed test practices to measure the Rolling resistance coefficient (RRC) of tires. The value of the RRC is the force divided by the wheel load. Using the tests (SAE J1269 and SAE J2452) most new passenger tires have reported RRCs ranging from 0.007 to 0.014. (1)

RRC
0.0097 Goodyear Integrity P185/70/R14
0.0062 Bridgestone B381 P185/70/R14

Trip was made possible due to CNG time-fill arrangements in the Oregon City area as well as using (public) fast fill stations in Chico, Medford, and Seatac.

Bill Stallman 510 479 5374


Low Rolling Resistance Tires:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=121

http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/GREEN/REPORTS/cgrtirerollingresistance.pdf

(1) http://www.energy.ca.gov/2006publica...0-2006-001.PDF
For conventional passenger tires, an increase in inflation pressure from 24 to 29 pounds per square inch (psi) will reduce rolling resistance by 10 percent. For a tire inflated to pressures between 24 and 36 psi, each drop of 1 psi leads to a 1.4 percent increase in its rolling resistance...there is a long-standing rule of thumb that a 10 percent reduction in RRC will yield a 1 to 2 percent increase in vehicle fuel economy.

[300mileclub]

Huge SEATAC station under construction

Where have all the Pierce Transit buses gone?

An enormous CNG station is under construction next door to the Seatac CLEAN ENERGY station in WA. The three IMW compressors are in as of 3 Dec 2011. This is so big that is would appear the existing 4 dispenser station will be dismantled.

My guess is that CLEAN ENERGY will use the equipment to get Lakewood, WA back in operation for Pierce Transit, or possibly move the stuff to Brooklake Rd NE Keizer OR (Salem) for the PILOT truck stop CLEAN ENERGY station opening third quarter 2012. The Salem date I have from first hand conversation with the engineer in Seal Beach, CA.

On this 1-5 Dec 2011 road trip in a 2004 GX roundtrip from Oakland CA to Seattle WA I did not see any Pierce Transit buses fueling at Seatac midday on Saturday/Sunday as I had during my September solo test drive. They were lined up three deep at 10pm on my previous trip to Seatac.

It will be simple to cross Oregon once fueling is available in Salem. I had the rare opportunity, this time, to top off my tank (after getting a 3000 psi time-fill at a residence in Oregon City near Portland the previous night) in Salem at ODOT (please don't try this -- they do not give public fills!) I only mention this because I was able to suspend my slow speed driving/high pressure tire methods and drive (may I admit to this) 75 mph in the last two hours of the drive to Medford to arrive before Jackson County Motorpool station closed at 5pm. I fueled twice more in Chico and Vacaville before arriving home at midnight. I carried chains but didn't need them (Siskiyou summit.)

A last point, here. The GX manual says not to use chains. But a low profile chain is sold at http://scc-chain dot com The Super Z6 SZ119 is made for 185/65R14 tires. The low rolling resistance tires I run on come in both the HONDA recommended size for the GX, P185/70R14, as well as 185/65R14. I presently have the "70" and the chains fit these, also.

The reason for the trip was so my wife could bake Christmas bread with her family in Seattle. But, then again, who needs a reason to help use up the glut of natural gas in North America.

[John Mitton]

Re: Huge SEATAC station under construction

Wow 330mileclub, you are a brave soul to keep running up I-15 in your Civic GX as you do
That is great news about the Salem OR CNG station coming on line next year

[300mileclub]

Will Oregon's Gov. Kitzhaber share former Gov. Kulongoski's push for CNG?

http://www.roguevalleycleancities.or...g_final_report[1].pdf


This Clean Cities report was published Jan 2010 as former Gov. Kulongoski's term ended.
page 51

From the Medford region north, there is not any infrastructure until Springfield near Eugene. The Springfield facility is part of the state of Oregon’s Department of Administrative Services (DAS) Motor Pool. The motor pool was shut down due to budget cuts recently, however the fueling systems are still operational and OSU is renting the facility for its motor pool needs. Salem has two compressor stations, one at the DAS Motor Pool and the other at the Salem Keizer Transit Districts facility. The state facility is closed to public refueling by statute.

Recommendations
...Support Oregon’s existing Business Energy Tax Credit and Residential Energy Tax Credit programs to continue to provide important incentives for natural gas vehicles and infrastructure.

...Open state, public and utility CNG dispensers to the general public for purchase of CNG until adequate private investment is made. (*)

(*) In the month following this report prepared for the Governor, the State of Oregon Legislature HB 3676, adopted 5 Feb 2010(1A), Section 10 said that Oregon Department of Administrative Services (DAS) may implement a program to sell compressed natural gas to private entities." DAS subsequently implemented the law for only a single customer -- the Daimler Freightliner truck plant on Swan Island in Portland for their CNG tractor trailer rigs.

[300mileclub]

Re: Will Oregon's Gov. Kitzhaber share former Gov. Kulongoski's push for CNG?

Link was corrupted during posting. Substitute "." for "dot" two places below and cut/paste string into browser:

http://www

dot roguevalleycleancities.org/images/news.html/February%20Newsletter/afviwg_final_report[1] dot pdf