Colorado Prices

[Dick]

Re: Colorado Prices

Richard-

You have got to be kidding!

I assume the Diamond Shamrock CNG station you filled at was one of the Clean Energy stations in the Denver area.

Have they really gone from $2.64 per GGE to $3.85 per GGE in one giant leap?

Dick

[Steve]

Re: Colorado Prices

I just stopped by one of the stations this morning. The price is 2.89 which should be the same for all of the Clean Energy stations.

[Techie]

Re: Colorado Prices

I was at the Diamond shamrock ng station today(6/28/08 and ng gas was 3.85 a gallon.

Richard

Non-CE stations do charge more, I do not know why. I have actually went in and asked if the posted price was a mistake, they were certain that the price was correct.

CE has certain tax credits that they pass it down to us. Not all companies do that and some are looking for a "solid return on investment" to sell Natural Gas, so price is higher.

I have encountered it in early 90's where natural gas costed almost what gasoline did. I have no explanation why, but it drove many CNG cars off the road and some bi-fuels had their CNG systems stripped.

[Steve]

Re: Colorado Prices

While appreciate CE building an infrastructure, they are a company that is interested in making money. I think they know a little bit more what their upper limit prices is whereas this crazy Diamond Shamrock (I thought all CNG pumps in CO were CE owned) seems a bit beyond the pale.

I read portions of their Q1 2008 quarterly report and read the transcript of their quarterly report call in. CE used some rough numbers on how their gas breaks down financially:

$1.20 / GGE for CNG
$1.00 /GGE for maintenance costs and some 'nice' profit
$0.30 for federal taxes (they do not add Colorado road taxes at their pumps)

and what ever differential between what they can sell and the price of gasoline, they add on.

I am guessing that they do not make huge profits / GGE and this last quarter I saw a lot of red numbers instead of black numbers.

[IGOTGAS]

Re: Colorado Prices

Well my number (on the dealer waiting list) is up and I have to decide if I want a CNG vehicle. Between the limited availability of fuel in my area, and the cost of the fillups at the existing locations, I'm thinking I'm going to pass for now.

If there was a station near me, I might consider it but there is not. I'm aware of the home fill option but the cost is high and nobody seems to talk about the electric use part of it. Running a 220 volt compressor for 8 hours has to pull a more than negligeable amount of juice . . . has anyone factored that in?

I'd open a station myself, as I'm looking for a business opportunity, but with such a limited client base, even a giant gov't grant wouldn't last long enough for it to "catch hold" and support itself.

I'm kinda bummed as I was looking forward to this!!

[Steve]

Re: Colorado Prices

Regarding the electricity usage, Phill uses 800 Watts / hour. I get charged about $0.09 / Kilo Watt hour. Works out roughly to $0.18 electricity per GGE.

There is a $1000 cap federal tax credit for installation of home refueling.
There is a 35% cost of installing home refueling tax credit for Colorado (expires at the end of this year at which point it reduces to 20%).
There is federal and state tax incentive for a Honda GX.

I would also love to open my own station. But go figure that I can't float 100k - 200k dollars to get it off the ground and operational.

[adifferentdrummer]

Re: Colorado Prices

I am also in Denver, and hoping to convert in mid August. My tanks are due to be delivered end of next week. I am thinking that I could recover my cost for a used Fuel Maker in about the same time it takes to recover my cost for the conversion, IF I fill up at home.

Does anyone know if there are restrictions on home fueling devices here in Colorado, and if not, what would the price be for gas at home? I've heard around a 1.50. Seeing as I drive 600 miles every 7 days, it wouldn't take long. Not a seasoned CNG guy, so appreciate any and all wisdom on these statements.

[Steve]

Re: Colorado Prices

Here are prices on my most recent Xcel energy bill:

$0.93 / Therm of natural gas (darn energy speculators, last year it was around $0.50 / therm)
$0.08 usage charge / therm
$0.06 pipeline fee / therm

Total price / therm = $1.07

Electric bill $0.11 / kilowatt hour which is about $0.085 / hour to run the Phill or about $0.21 / GGE

About 1.25 therms in a GGE = $1.33 plus electricity used is a total of $1.54 / GGE

[Steve]

Re: Colorado Prices

Got my gas bill today. Price per therm has dropped in half from last month! For Sept I got $0.44 / therm, woo hoo!! That works out to a total utility cost of $0.83 / GGE.

[John Mitton]

Re: Colorado Prices

Wow, that is about half what we are paying in Utah.

[Richard]

Re: Colorado Prices

I live in Parker and just received my 2008 GX. I had to purchase it in California and have it shipped here. Also had a Phil fuelmaker installed in my garage. What a neat setup. I love the civic, drives and handles great. Being able to fill it up in my garage is unbeliveable.

I havent used a commercial station yet, havent had to. Besides there isnt any cng stations close to me now, the closest is I-25 and Colorado Blvd.

Does anyone know how I can use the publiuc service station on South Valencia. I have a clean energy fuel card, but it does not work at the public service station on Valencia?

Does anyone kknow how to establish a Colorado web site for CNG users?

Richard

[Steve]

Re: Colorado Prices

Richard,

If the fill station is listed as being part of the Public Service Company of Colorado, then the pump probably will be publicly available just outside of Xcel's property or rather on their property but available to the public. These pumps might be a little tricky to find. The one on Colorado Boulevard is just part of a Diamond Shamrock gas station. All of the public pumps in Colorado are Clean Energy pumps so your Clean Energy card will get you to all the pumps. Clean Energy maintains one price for all their pumps, currently at 2.74 / GGE.

[Steve]

Re: Colorado Prices

Looks like Clean Energy reduced their prices again (several times this month to keep them aligned with unleaded) and we are now at $2.01 according to www.cngprices.com (awesome site by the way). I won't feel so bad if I have to fuel up at a public station as opposed to fueling up at home.

[James Johnston]

Re: Colorado Prices

Hmmm, After reading and now knowing some new facts I think I,ll just buy a 3 cyl.chev metro,and sell the 1999 ford crown vic cng decated 69k I just stole off a web site from a seller in FL.(NO CNG STATIONS AT ALL THERE) Not enough differance in the price of fuel to not sell this car and make my christmas present off somone from utah.......It really is too bad though. I,m very dissapointed in colorado. For what I paid for the car I wouldn,t even get enough of a tax credit for a new pair of shoes. Or maybe I should move to utah.......Over the past 5 days I,ve gone from thrilled to bummed and the car isn,t even here yet lol.

[sheSkis]

Re: Colorado Prices

Does anyone know if ANYTHING can be done to get more stations in Colorado (Especially in the Mountains!!) ?

I've heard a rumor that Vail might open one for the airport shuttles to/from Denver...

Does anyone out there have the key to getting this going? If so, please speak up (is there a petition that could be signed or anything?)

Thx!

-M