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PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

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  • PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

    In an open rate case - PG&E is proposing to raise NGV rates - and Clean Energy testimony complains its not enough. The case is about how much is the cost of PG&E compression stations - which CLNE says is unfairly subsidized and anti-competitive to their business.

    Rate would go into effect 7/1/2010 - read clean energy's testimony at

    Its time for NGV owners to respond - not sure yet where to direct comments - but the service list for the docs has e-mail adresses.

    Maybe others with more time can dig into this more - I hope to prepare some comments -

    Dick Buckingham

  • #2
    Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

    NGV drivers unite! - contact the CPUC DRA in San Francisco to oppose this increase and get them to set rates based on true long-run marginal cost of NGV fueling (like at City of Riverside and new Shell station in SoCAL) - with a reasonable usage amount assumed for spreading the fixed costs - , not based on PG&E's low volumes - which were never built to attract large fleets - just serve PG&E vehicles and then added public access later.

    CPUC just filed its response to PG&E proposal - on 11/4/09


    5 The last BCAP, D.05-06-029, adopted a settlement between PG&E and Clean

    6 Energy which required PG&E to perform a cost study to update the compression cost

    7 component of the G-NGV2 rate. PG&E conducted a cost study using cost information

    8 from five of its NGV stations in various service locations with relatively high public

    9 usage. Based on its own cost study, PG&E determined that a rate increase of about $0.20

    10 per therm is reasonable. Therefore, PG&E proposes to increase the compression

    11 component of the G-NGV2 rate from the current $0.546 to $0.744 per therm excluding

    12 the electric compression cost. In response to a DRA data request86, PG&E indicated that

    13 the proposed NGV rate increase of $0.20/therm would result in a decrease to the cost

    14 allocation to other customer classes, including residential classes. The impact would be

    15 about a 0.8 cent decrease on the average residential customer’s monthly bill. DRA

    16 reviewed the cost study and the data response and does not oppose PG&E’s NGV study.


    • #3
      Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

      I thought PG&E stations were serving customers long before Clean Energy came around. If that's the case, how could PG&E be "competing" if they were first on the block and have never lowered rates?

      I would compare this to a bottled water company asking the PUC to raise the rate of your tap water because they are not selling enough bottled water.

      What can we do to protect fair CNG pricing?


      • #4
        Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

        3 things I'm thinking may happen.

        1) CE will gain control of the market and charge what ever they want once they get PGE to hand over the silver spoon.

        2) Fueling at home will become more desirable but guess what... CE might buy out FSS and charge what ever they want for phill..

        3) There will be more CE stations opening up.

        I can see the Pickens Plan unfolding.

        Here is the # to Protest, what is the best way to proceed?

        To comment on proceedings or issues that the Commission is considering , please contact our Public Advisor's Office at: CPUC Public Advisor, 505 Van Ness Avenue, Room 2103, San Francisco, CA 94102; or call 1-866-849-8390 or 1-415-703-2074; or email [email protected].
        Silver 09 GX
        Phill G:1.5


        • #5
          Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

          The proceeding is open at PG&E - documents active can be viewed at

          I note that in at page 4 that PG&E report CLNE has expressed interest in buying some or all of PG&E's fueling stations. - and is asking for all there volume sales data - both for PG&E use and non-PG&E use


          • #6
            Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

            Because CE has such a big presence in LA county, I wonder if they are also going to petition and increase the cost for SoCal Gas users.. Or maybe they want to see what they can do with PGE 1st before complete state domination of CNG.

            I've already sent out emails to the cupc but want to know if there anything else i can do to help stop this.
            Silver 09 GX
            Phill G:1.5


            • #7
              Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

              So, can we show up to the meeting to protest? When is it?


              • #8
                Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

                DRA is pretty useless, if something lowers or maintains residential rates, they don't care about the rest.

                To best express your interest to the commission, you should become a party to the docket.

                I'll ask my partner what the process is, he's an attorney and has done work before the CPUC.


                • #9
                  Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

                  Here's the email I got from PG&E:

                  PG&E Natural Gas Vehicle Customers,

                  In an application submitted to the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) on May 29, 2009, PG&E proposed to increase the NGV2 rate from $1.014/therm to $1.290/therm. Most of this increase is due to an increase in the estimate of the cost to compress the gas for use at natural gas vehicle stations. PG&E's stations have facilities to compress the natural gas for suitable use in NGVs. PG&E was required to provide an update of the compression cost in this proceeding and relied on a detailed analysis of a sample of PG&E's high-use, public access NGV stations.

                  As a PG&E natural gas vehicle customer you have the right to participate in the CPUC proceeding, called the 2009 Biennial Cost Allocation Proceeding, Application 09-05-026. For more information, go to the CPUC website link.



                  Jill Egbert
                  Clean Air Transportation
                  Phone: 530-757-5235
                  Fax: 530-757-5240


                  • #10
                    Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

                    Here is the public link from for PG&E's BCAP Testimony
           (page 25 for NGV compression cost and table 5-O on page 5-22)

                    I would take issue with their choice of the Folsom Street station, the station is not available to the public 24/7.

                    Also, their future projections appear to be a bit conservative, given the other proceedings in the state to increase the number of NGV on the road.


                    • #11
                      Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

                      I hope I have the correct forum to address PG&E's NGV2 rate under the CPUC application no. 09-05-026 that was presented in echambelain's thread a few hours ago that echamberlain got from PG&E's Jill Egbert. Unfortunately Ms. Ebert’s communication is not very clear. It's not only the NGV2 rate that is going up, but more specifically the charge to compress the gas that appears to be going up by 27% based upon my recent conversation with Ms. Egbert. Unfortunately, when one goes on PG&E's tariff rates on their web site,
                      that establishes PG&E's NGV2 rate, one finds that the NGV2 rate is composed of three elements: Procurement, Transportation and their PPP surcharge expressed in $/therm and then converted to $/GGE. So it appears this PG&E rate increase applies to the "Transportation" portion of the NGV2 rate only. One will notice by opening PG&E NGV2 link on their tariff web site, that the transportation portion of the NGV2 rate has been consistently $0.97938/therm for the entire year of 2009, not $1.014/therm as shown in Ms. Egbert’s email. At any rate, since PG&E's NGV2 rate fluctuates every month, it is clear to me that if CPUC approves PG&E's rate increase for NGV2, it will increase by 27% across the board for 2010. Incidentally, Ms. Ebert's email only provided a 68 page document from CPUC on how to provide testimony, and not when the actual application hearing will take place. Very poor communication by PG&E. I found the hearing date on CPUC's web site. The hearing will be held in San Francisco and the hearing begins Jan. 25, 2010 and may last more days. I recommend everyone who purchases CNG from PG&E attend, and protest this rate increase. I will and will provide prima facie evidence to support my request for CPUC to deny PG&E's rate increase. For any additional comments, please let me know.


                      • #12
                        Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

                        Currently, there are no public comments scheduled, so getting any testimony admitted at the proceeding on January 25th, is highly unlikely.

                        To submit testimony, people generally need to intervene in the proceeding. The process is called a motion to intervene and would look something similar to what is already on record for the docket. See TURN's motion to intervene as an example.

                        Anyone interested in intervening should call the public advisors office for additional assistance. The public advisors office can help with the forms.


                        • #13
                          Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

                          I'm moving this very important discussion thread over to the Northern California forum for better visibility with our community who reside in the area.

                          CNGchat ownership has no particular opinion on this matter, but if anyone would like to spearhead an awareness campaign please let me know as we can send out an e-mail blast to our CA members (can't separate No Cal from So Cal, unfortunately). The more reasoned dialogue, the better the CPUC decision.


                          • #14
                            Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

                            This message is to echamblerlain and all who want to provide comments to the CPUC hearing on PG&E's NGV2 rate increase. While I have never attended a CPUC heraing, I called CPUC and they gave me this web site: to attend the hearing and provide both written and oral comments. While the web site is rather large, just scrool down to "commission meetings", "formal complaints", "oral aurgument", "prepared testimony", etc. So it appears anyone can provide comments in a variety of ways. I still recommend all who purchase CNG from PG&E show up at the meeting and voice their protest. I intend to. Power to the people.


                            • #15
                              Re: PG&E NGV Rates $0.25/gge increase proposed

                              I'm a So. Cal NGV'er & PG&E customer (a necessity for road trips up north). Can someone put together a draft of talking points that can be reviewed and agreed upon to become a petition to be signed by PG&E customers from afar (like me)? The argument against the proposed increase will need to be very clear. What are all the CNG cost elements (not just what's on the bill)? Are there any additional maintenance costs due to NG compression, and if so, over what time period? Need some data from valid sources to support this. It may be that a recommended reduction in the amount proposed and justification of such might be needed. Just something to consider.
                              White '09 GX