support for proposal on California home refueling regulations

[OhMyGas]

Got a letter from Southern California Gas Company asking for assistance on a proposal for changes on home refueling regulations.
As I understand is to get rid of the 'qualifying letter' from the gas company.
Below the scan, if you are support this proposal please print, sign and submit it.
And here the first paragraph:

[larrycng]

Re: support for proposal on regulations

We had all better send in a positive response to CARB.

In reading this letter, it would imply that there are two different specifications for natural gas; one for home and industry, and one for vehicle service. As we all know there is one natural gas pipe line feed by many sources. The composition of natural gas will vary with the source of the gas. The percentage of methane will vary with the source. We do not monitor the gas and its methane content and shut out sources that do not meet a minimum methane content (whatever that is). The natural gas that you use at home is the same stuff that you get from the corner CNG fueling station.

Yes, most of the pumps I've observed state "minimum 88% methane". Some of the other components in "natural gas" can adversely affect engine performance and increase vehicle emissions. They are not monitored.

Is CARB trying to enforce a specification for the methane content of the gas California that would differ from the pipeline product that industry and the home consumer use? What would such a specification do to the price of natural gas? You might need two pipe lines.

As an alternative we could specify minimum “Wobe index number” for all natural gas that come into California. Engine manufacturers do it.

Just a few thoughts that we might want to consider.

larrycng

[Adrian]

Re: support for proposal on regulations

I got the same letter, filled out the bottom and mailed it in. Less CARB regulation is just fine with me.

Hey, maybe someday we'll be able to drive EPA certified NGVs in CA without having to add the large useless cost needed for CARB certification.

[CaptJeff]

Re: support for proposal on regulations

This appears to be a very good thing.
In some areas, they need 2 pipelines to degrade the quality of the gas so that it meets the CARB standard.

For a long time, it has been an issue with the 'quality' of natural gas having to meed a BS specification for home, and actually ANY Vehicle use.
The old CARB standard was predicated on VERY OLD vehicles that could only use a certain fairly tight spec on gas. 'HOT GAS', which we would view as BETTER FUEL, containing more energy, could create a problem for these jusrrasic vehicles, thus CARB put out a spec that limited the 'better fuel' (some found in the Santa Barbara area) and required
CNG fueling facillities to mix and 'DUMB DOWN' (my comment) the fuel.

According to Honda (when I discussed this with them a few years ago) the 'hot gas' is virtually not an issue for the GX. Evidently, in reality, it's not an issue for any current day vehicle that would be home refueled, thus, THANKFULLY, CARB is getting going on dropping the gas 'quality' issue for home refueling.

In the past, there have been folks DENIED the approval for home refueling due to the CARB gas quality standard. The gas was actually better than normal.
Jeff

[Curtis]

Re: support for proposal on regulations

The off shore rigs outside of Santa Barbara and the Bakersfield line that runs South through Santa Clarita are strait well gas (hot gas). Capt Jeff is right that the old regulations pertained to pre-computerized vehicles that could not compensate for the variations in gas content. SoCal Gas has been trying to overturn this rule for at least the past 5 years. It is irrelevent now anyways, as home refuelers and commercial entities alike now have access to the waivers and can fuel from these pipe lines.

[John Mitton]

Re: support for proposal on California home refueling regulations

As this is California specific I am going to move the thread over to our California forum. Curtis and I are planning an e-mail blast to all of our CA members on a few topics... this is probably one grass-roots initiative that everyone in CA can assist with, not just SoCal customers right?

[ILoveMyNGV]

Re: support for proposal on California home refueling regulations

Got mine in the mail and mailed it the same day.

[Michael]

Re: support for proposal on California home refueling regulations

I received my letter a while back, and just got around to looking at it. In general, I am in favor of making it easier for those who wish to refuel at home.

However, it seems a little odd to me that I am requested to send in my letter to Southern California Gas Company, instead of directly to CARB. In fact, when perusing the CARB web site, I had some problems finding anything about any recent actions on this issue other than a mention of it on the 2009 Rulemaking Calendar. Does anyone have any thoughts or additional information?

Curtis, could you please explain this comment from 11-22-2009 in more detail? Thanks.
Curtis wrote -- "It is irrelevent now anyways, as home refuelers and commercial entities alike now have access to the waivers and can fuel from these pipe lines."

Respectfully submitted,
Michael

[freedml]

Re: support for proposal on California home refueling regulations

It used to be that if your gas wasn't 'good enough' you couldn't get a permit to install a compressor. Period. Now, if it isn't good enough, you can apply for and get a waiver. (Gas quality was an issue with older ignition systems, but newer cars automatically adjust for gas quality). But, why bother to have that rule any more? It just causes hassle and delay.

[Curtis]

Re: support for proposal on California home refueling regulations

Simply put; you and I can now apply for the same CARB waivers that commercial stations located in Hot Gas areas can get. SoCal Gas has been waging this fight for a number of years, trying to get this archaic ruling overturned... without any luck. This waiver is our ticket to home refueling.

Member, Steve Anthony, would be better equipped to give you any details that you may be seeking, but the waiver is nothing new. It's been around for a long time. We now have access to the applications, as well as the SoCal Gas paperwork, thanks to the hard work of Steve and others at the alterntive fuels division down there.

I hope this answers your question, if not... ask something specific that you want an answer to.