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Hydrogen in CNG tanks

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  • Hydrogen in CNG tanks

    Is there anyone with enough experience that can speak to this. I want to put 3600 PSI of Hydrogen into 3600 PSI rated CNG tanks. Does anyone see a safety issue with this? I know I'll end up with less GGE but looking for the safety aspect of it.
    sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
    SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

    2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
    2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
    1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
    2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

    FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

  • #2
    Re: Hydrogen in CNG tanks

    Hydrogen embrittles metal, so the tank would need to be lined. Then, it is almost impossible to prevent H2 leaks unless the valve and what is attaches to were designed for Hydrogen service. So, I bet the answer is 'no.'
    02 GX
    01 GX
    03 Crown Vic
    06 GX
    Home Fueler

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    • #3
      Re: Hydrogen in CNG tanks

      What Freedml said about the valves and excessories is true along with the Type 1 and Type 2 steel tanks. Dynetek and Lincoln also make Hydrogen and Hydrogen blend tanks. Dyneteck type 3 and Lincoln type 4. These do not have the embrittlement problems of steel tanks. From what I have been lead to believe, there is little difference between their hydrogen and CNG versions of their tanks. I would check with type 3 and type 4 tank manufacturers before you use them for hydrogen. NFPA 52, the '06 and 2010 versions have information on hydrogen vehicle applications.

      Becareful

      Larrycng

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      • #4
        Re: Hydrogen in CNG tanks

        CNG tanks say "CNG ONLY" on them for a reason. If the tank is a Type 3 then most likely it is an aluminum lined composite tank. Aluminum does not have the hydrogen embrittlement as bad as the steel does, but it is affected a little by the hydrogen. I would bet that the tank manufacturers would say 'No Way' on filling their CNG tanks with hydrogen. Plus aren't hydrogen fueling stations rated at 5,000 psi? I guess you would have to stop it at ~3,600 psi.
        Jared.
        Mountain Green, Utah
        2003 CNG Cavalier
        2003 CNG Silverado 2500HD

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        • #5
          Re: Hydrogen in CNG tanks

          Hydrogen tanks come in 5000, 6500, and 10000 psi.

          Keep in mind that hydrogen has a very wide range of explosive properties. (oxygen mix)
          H2 burns 4x faster than other gaseous fuels.
          H2 will burn without a visible flame.
          H2 will embrittle metal and will diffuse through most materials.

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          • #6
            Re: Hydrogen in CNG tanks

            Originally posted by Amfuel View Post
            Hydrogen tanks come in 5000, 6500, and 10000 psi.

            Keep in mind that hydrogen has a very wide range of explosive properties. (oxygen mix)
            H2 burns 4x faster than other gaseous fuels.
            H2 will burn without a visible flame.
            H2 will embrittle metal and will diffuse through most materials.
            all of this makes me think it is not such a great moter fuel for moble use

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            • #7
              Re: Hydrogen in CNG tanks

              I would tend to agree with you but look at the push to go Hydro. A similar statement could have been said about gasoline if the man was riding a horse. Time and safety will tell.

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              • #8
                Re: Hydrogen in CNG tanks

                I know that when water and aluminum powder mix, they release enough hydrogen to burst a sealed drum. If a spark is near, H2 can explode in the presence of oxygen.

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                • #9
                  Re: Hydrogen in CNG tanks

                  Natural gas has an ignition window of between 5% and 15% oxygen. That is a fairly narrow range.
                  Hydrogen will ignite in a window of between 4% and 75% oxygen. Storage of H2 with an oxygen mix is called Browns Gas...Boom.

                  HH2 on cars use browns gas but there is no storage as it is sucked into the intake constantly as it is produced.

                  Don't get me wrong... I'm for hydrogen. It can be used in fuel cells and it's the clean concept but it may take a very long time to be on the mass market for energy use.

                  My big sticking point on H2 is in the sunny south it can be produced easily with solar by operating a fuel cell backwards. In the not so sunny north it will be reformed from natural gas. CH4. I say just burn the natural gas.

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                  • #10
                    Only common industrial gas with wider flammability limits than hydrogen is acetylene:

                    https://www.mathesongas.com/pdfs/pro...ve-Limits-.pdf
                    .

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