The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

[Amfuel]

The new BRC Fuel Maker announced that the Phill CNG home refueling system is now available for ordering. The order to delivery time is 14 weeks so don't wait or it'll arrive in the dead of winter. (I'm in WI)

Find your closest Phill dealer at http://www.impcotechnologies.com/phill-dealers.asp

Lets get out of the foreign oil glut. Save today, Save tomorrow

[ORCoaster]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

What should I expect to pay for a home refueling station? FMQ 2 or FMQ 2-36? Have a line on one but the asking price is 6-7,000 dollars, can that be right? Dealer installed and 5 hours from his residence.

Let me know as this is the deal breaker for the CNG. No Public, No Private stations in this area. May need to start something up for a retirement business.

Thanks DAS

[Amfuel]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

You are obviously talking about a used system, installed and a 10 hour round trip. That is a lot of windshield hours.

Deal breaker? Natural gas at my home is $0.725 gge. (May statement)

[ORCoaster]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

Problem is not the cost of the Nat gas. Therm here is 1.15 so gge would be much less than gasoline at 3.00/ gal. But come on, if I have to convert or buy another vehicle and a home refueling station then the simple math says I can drive the ole ford ranger forever before i make up the difference. But then I also know that it isn't about the money. It is an environmental issue or being dependent on foreign oil right. Selling the idea to the other driver here, that would be the wife, has got to make some sense and spending bocu bucks just to drive a CNG truck is not a very good argument.

Anyone think the 6-7 grand price is right? DAS

[cnguser]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

DAS
It is your call on the math. I am another sole home fueler in Oregon, and with two NGV's it works for me on the environmental side.
I got a used FMQ-2 installed about 4 years ago, so the payback is still OK at $1.40 per GGE on NW Natural supply. Also, remember there was a good rate REDUCTION here on Nov 1st so we are even better off than previously. For $6-7K installed that is a deal - just watch the postings from other parts of the country on new units installed...

[cngacrossusa]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

Hello ORCoaster,

Sounds like you're ready to plunge into the GREAT world of CNG !! Welcome !!

If you want CNG stuff for bargain, you'll have to Work at it !! Watch GSA auctions there in your area (OR, CA, etc) as there are some auctions coming up later in June and in July.

You can also use Google to narrow search of Craigslist as follows:
vra fm4 site:craigslist.org
This will display an FM4 that I know is for sale in California for $4,000 last time I checked.

Do similar Google search for Honda Civic GX with:
Civic GX site:craigslist.org

Or you can do generic search of anything with CNG with:
cng site:craigslist.org

I've seen Corona, CA car dealer have a 2000 or 2001 Toyota Camry (dedicated CNG) for only $8,995 and had around 60K or 70K miles. That would be a great long-term investment if you are committing to CNG with a home refueling appliance like Fuelmaker. Those cng Camry's are rare but rock solid reliable. Get a bi-fuel pickup for yourself and you're all set!!

Best of luck to you . . . go CNG !!! (cleanest fuel on the planet, except for solar and wind !!)

[ORCoaster]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

cng... thanks for the welcome. I have a line on a truck, 1998 F250 for about 5 K. Maybe less if the CNG is like messed up. Getting that to work may be a challenge but I haven't had a problem taking things apart and figuring them out, cleaning and getting them to work. My kids marvel at my success and now they are into it. We converted a VW rabbit to WVO about 5-6 years ago and it finally blew up last fall. So what did my boy do? Pulled all the equipment off of it and bought a Dodge Ram with a diesel in it and now he is driving the chicken fat out of it. And getting paid to do so.

I have done the searching as you have suggested and that is how I found not one but two trucks for sale. How about a 1997 Ford Ranger with 42000 miles on it? Guess the price and I will tell you where it is. Recent auction in Napa, Id had a F150 go for 4600 but the ad mentioned the CNG needed repair.


I am not looking for CNG equipment for a bargain, I have thrown that idea out the window. Especially when I think of the Compuvalve on the F250, 2000 buck? Or was that something else like a tank and valve combination? So I know this is an expensive deal but hey, we buy stuff all the time and keep it forever so why not some CNG stuff too. It is an investment in the alt fuel arena as far as I am concerned. I have been labeled a rebel but mom call all us kids that at one time or another.

I will post some other questions as they pop into my pea brain, I am sure you folks will be on them like a dog on a bone.

Later DAS

[Amfuel]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

This is a good time to act. When the price of gasoline gets too high for folks the value of the alternatative energy products rises also.

T Boone says $90 bbl before year end. The former CEO of Exxon says oil will be in the triple digits by year end. They may be wrong but what if they aren't?

[cngacrossusa]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

How about a 2001 or 2002 Ford Ranger 3.0 v6 with aftermarket cng bi-fuel installed with 70K miles that was former AZ gas company truck for $4,600 last summer?

Sad thing is the cng system was being removed as a car dealer who owned the truck, was "having trouble" selling the bi-fuel Ranger!#[email protected]@$$%%!! I couldn't find anyone who could come up with money that quick, so the poor Ranger is now a "former cng" vehicle. Too sad.

Price would have been around $4,000 or less, if I had found this Ranger sooner . . . !! As mechanic was part way through the "tear down" of cng . . . . arrrggghh!

[cngforvk]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

Is there a return on investment on the home kit or just convenience?

I just checked with the local Phil dealer in Northern California

Price for Phill is $4739 + Tax.
Installation is 2 - 3K

May qualify for a 2k rebate.

I am out 6K just for the convenience of fillng up at home? Are there other cost benefits that I am missing?

[Amfuel]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

Hmmm.... I tried to upload a spreadsheet with a savings calculator but the site doesn't like the file format. I got it off the web but don't know where from.
PM or email me with your email address and I will send it to you. In the mean time I'll see if I can locate it online for everyone to have.

[Amfuel]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

OK I see that it is working. At least for me.

[Amfuel]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

OH, by the way, those costs for the Phill are a bit high perhaps but the install seems really high but I don't know the circumstances of the install. So maybe, maybe not.

[HRAguy]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

At $4739 cost, plus $1500 installation, electricity cost etc, there will never be a breakeven point.

The typical “good flow” life of a HRA is somewhere around 4800 hours (startling life -20%). After that, the flow rate will start to decrease fairly rapidly,

Assuming that you drive about 12,000 miles a year, that would equate to about 4800 hours of pump time on the compressor. (10 hours refueling a day)

Using a Gasoline cost of 3.50 a gallon, and a Natural Gas cost of 1.25 GGE, the end of life fuel cost would be $5607 for Gasoline and $8532 for Natural Gas.

Originally the HRA was priced just under 2K with a $500 installation, which gave a reasonable payback less than 2.5 years. After that, everything went back into your pocket.

Unfortunately, almost immediately after the HRA was initially launched, just about all of the funding for the project was cancelled, staffing levels were cut by over 75%, and the development and release of the Generation 2 HRA (low cost machine) was cancelled.

Over time, FuelMaker had to slowly increase the cost of the HRA in order to keep pace with inflation, but they still managed to keep the profit margin very low in order to help subsidize the customer.

Unfortunately, everything changed after BRC took over the company; it looks to me like maintaining their margin is more important than customer payback or satisfaction.

Is a $2,000 machine still possible, most defiantly YES.

Will BRC-FuelMaker be the ones to do it, I doubt it.

[Amfuel]

Re: The BRC Fuel Maker Phill is back!!

Quite frankly BRC didn't change the price much at all. It has stayed nearly the same as what it was with the old FM. At todays gasoline price (mid-west) it is about a break even on a first Phill. On the exchange replacements the costs start lining up properly. Cut off the Straight of Hormuz or lose a Saudi well and you'll wipe your brow being glad that you had the good sense to go CNG.

Harry Reid has introduced legislation for CNG. (a remake of the NatGasAct) You can find info on it at CNGNow. This may get done before the November elections. I smell desperation in the air.