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Resolved: Help my Phill is dieing!

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  • Resolved: Help my Phill is dieing!

    My 1.5 year old phill is having problems. the fan has stopped working. The compressor is functioning but eventually the unit overheats? and shuts off and the error light illuminates.

    I have tried unplugging the unit and even trying to spin the fan manually to start it up, no luck.

    Guess the next step will be to call fuelmaker for support. I'll let everyone know how it goes.
    -------------
    moore101
    2000 Toyota Camry CNG
    FuelMaker Phill v1.0

  • #2
    Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

    The unit has error code 00001 which is low inlet pressure but I know that is fine since nothing has changed and the valves are all open. The unit only has 2500-2750 hours on it
    -------------
    moore101
    2000 Toyota Camry CNG
    FuelMaker Phill v1.0

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

      I dont know how the phill look like inside. But can you reach the contact for the fan? Where the electrical wires from the fan going to a "socket" inside phill? You can try to measure this socket to see if it gives power to verify that the fan is broken and nothing else.... Is it a 230v(110v) fan so be careful when measuring (electric shock).. A fan should not be that expensive to exchange if its a standard one...
      Fuel statistics -> http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/220326.html
      Volvo S60 Bi-Fuel Automatic -06
      Average consumption: 34,4MPG
      Living in Sweden (We don?t have polar bears on our streets)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

        Thanks for the info Taz after speaking with Fuelmaker and getting quotes on repair (cheapest option ~$1600 ) I decided to crack open my unit. The external case and air duct removes easily and quickly, 12 screws or so. The fan is a EbmPapst P/N: DV6424TDAU. It's a 24v fan and it is getting 17v which is within it's specs so I think the fan is indeed bad. I will keep everyone informed of the repair progress and post pictures soon.
        -------------
        moore101
        2000 Toyota Camry CNG
        FuelMaker Phill v1.0

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

          Originally posted by moore101 View Post
          Thanks for the info Taz after speaking with Fuelmaker and getting quotes on repair (cheapest option ~$1600 ) I decided to crack open my unit. The external case and air duct removes easily and quickly, 12 screws or so. The fan is a EbmPapst P/N: DV6424TDAU. It's a 24v fan and it is getting 17v which is within it's specs so I think the fan is indeed bad. I will keep everyone informed of the repair progress and post pictures soon.
          Ok, good work .. A EbmPapst fan should not be to expensive. Here in sweden they cost from 20$ up to 100$... What you can do is to try the fan with external power .. You could try a 12v battery or something if you dont have anything else.. But be careful in case of you have a short circuit in the fan, the cables may be hot then.. This is to really make sure the fan is faulty...

          17v for the 24v is ok, i dont know how the phill works but maybe it gives a lower voltage to have less airflow and volume from the fan if the unit is not hot and then raise it above 24v to get maxium cooling and airflow from the fan when needed.

          1600$ in repair.. sounds VERY expensive...
          Fuel statistics -> http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/220326.html
          Volvo S60 Bi-Fuel Automatic -06
          Average consumption: 34,4MPG
          Living in Sweden (We don?t have polar bears on our streets)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

            The fan does nothing with 12v DC attached so it is indeed bad. I emailed EbmPapst a few days ago and they were very prompt with a response: no units available in the US but the are going to check international inventory. They said to try the OEM if no units are available since they need to be made in batches of 25. Hopefully I can get a hold of one, I am sure Fuelmaker won't be to keen on selling me just a fan. Especially when they can charge $1000 for a flat rate repair fee+shipping+deinstall/reinstall.

            Funny I am having flashbacks to trying to have my Fuel-pressure regulator rebuilt on my 99 GX. No one would help including the FPR maker they said call Honda and buy a new one for $1800.

            Everyone must think that us CNG guys are made of money or too stupid to be able to fix stuff.

            Moral of the story if you buy a new Phill get the extended warranty! No repairs of the unit out of warranty can be done on site that means that the total MINIMUM repair fee is $1600 even for a stupid defective fan. In the computer industry if you built a PC or server that did not have field replaceable fans you would be laughed out of business.
            -------------
            moore101
            2000 Toyota Camry CNG
            FuelMaker Phill v1.0

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

              Originally posted by moore101 View Post
              The fan does nothing with 12v DC attached so it is indeed bad. I emailed EbmPapst a few days ago and they were very prompt with a response: no units available in the US but the are going to check international inventory. They said to try the OEM if no units are available since they need to be made in batches of 25. Hopefully I can get a hold of one, I am sure Fuelmaker won't be to keen on selling me just a fan. Especially when they can charge $1000 for a flat rate repair fee+shipping+deinstall/reinstall.

              Funny I am having flashbacks to trying to have my Fuel-pressure regulator rebuilt on my 99 GX. No one would help including the FPR maker they said call Honda and buy a new one for $1800.

              Everyone must think that us CNG guys are made of money or too stupid to be able to fix stuff.

              Moral of the story if you buy a new Phill get the extended warranty! No repairs of the unit out of warranty can be done on site that means that the total MINIMUM repair fee is $1600 even for a stupid defective fan. In the computer industry if you built a PC or server that did not have field replaceable fans you would be laughed out of business.
              I totally agree with you! A fan mounted like that should be easy to exchange. But hey.. Try to ask Fuelmaker if they have a fan as spare part and what it does cost.. I dont know if opening the Phill voids some kind of warranty? In that case dont give them your name or number when you call to ask Its probably anyway much cheaper to get the fan somewhere else.. IF you can find the right model...

              Please post in this thread again with new updated status about this...
              Fuel statistics -> http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/220326.html
              Volvo S60 Bi-Fuel Automatic -06
              Average consumption: 34,4MPG
              Living in Sweden (We don?t have polar bears on our streets)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

                Originally posted by moore101 View Post
                Funny I am having flashbacks to trying to have my Fuel-pressure regulator rebuilt on my 99 GX. No one would help including the FPR maker they said call Honda and buy a new one for $1800.
                Off-topic but I'm wondering if you ever did find anyone to fix the regulator. I have one with a leaking diaphragm (GFI).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

                  Originally posted by cngsteve View Post
                  Off-topic but I'm wondering if you ever did find anyone to fix the regulator. I have one with a leaking diaphragm (GFI).
                  Nope ended up selling the car at a loss.
                  -------------
                  moore101
                  2000 Toyota Camry CNG
                  FuelMaker Phill v1.0

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

                    Well after much troubleshooting the fan is the only part that has failed. The cheapest price I have found for a direct replacement fan is ~$350. I have a fan in the unit now that fits but does not shut off as it doesn't have the same control circuit as the original.

                    So my Phill is back up and running I just need to unplug it after fueling to get the fan to stop. The replacement fan is a EBM-Papst Model# 6224N that I picked up at a surplus electronics store for $20, much better than the $1600 quote from FuelMaker to repair my unit.

                    I will probably run this fan for a while and if my Phill continues to work normally invest in the correct fan. If anyone has questions on how the fan operates or needs a parts source let me know.

                    Just for kicks I am going to call FuelMaker and see if they will sell me the fan. Want to place any bets on what they will say? My guess is two words" "Hell no"
                    -------------
                    moore101
                    2000 Toyota Camry CNG
                    FuelMaker Phill v1.0

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

                      Since you're into customizing, why not add a switch to cut the fan off?
                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_4586_1441434431016_578[/ATTACH]

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                      • #12
                        Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

                        Originally posted by Curtis View Post
                        Since you're into customizing, why not add a switch to cut the fan off?
                        Thought about that or even add a relay to start the fan when the Phill starts filling. But that would also mean if there were a gas leak the fan may not come on.
                        -------------
                        moore101
                        2000 Toyota Camry CNG
                        FuelMaker Phill v1.0

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

                          Originally posted by moore101 View Post
                          Well after much troubleshooting the fan is the only part that has failed. The cheapest price I have found for a direct replacement fan is ~$350. I have a fan in the unit now that fits but does not shut off as it doesn't have the same control circuit as the original.

                          So my Phill is back up and running I just need to unplug it after fueling to get the fan to stop. The replacement fan is a EBM-Papst Model# 6224N that I picked up at a surplus electronics store for $20, much better than the $1600 quote from FuelMaker to repair my unit.

                          I will probably run this fan for a while and if my Phill continues to work normally invest in the correct fan. If anyone has questions on how the fan operates or needs a parts source let me know.

                          Just for kicks I am going to call FuelMaker and see if they will sell me the fan. Want to place any bets on what they will say? My guess is two words" "Hell no"
                          Nice to hear that you sorted it out! And that the phill works again!

                          Cant you connect the fan you bought to the same circuit as the fan that died? I mean the old fan and the new fan is just a fan? If they have the same voltage specs it should be no problem and then the fan would work as the old one..
                          Fuel statistics -> http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/220326.html
                          Volvo S60 Bi-Fuel Automatic -06
                          Average consumption: 34,4MPG
                          Living in Sweden (We don?t have polar bears on our streets)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Help my Phill is dieing!

                            Originally posted by taz View Post
                            Nice to hear that you sorted it out! And that the phill works again!

                            Cant you connect the fan you bought to the same circuit as the fan that died? I mean the old fan and the new fan is just a fan? If they have the same voltage specs it should be no problem and then the fan would work as the old one..
                            The fan is connected to the same power wires as the old one. The Phill fan circuit is a very odd design. The fan always has +24V DC when the Phill is plugged in. With the original fan, it's control wire is connected to a circuit board on the Phill and the Phill supplies +3 to +10V to the fan to control the speed of the fan. According to the original fan specs 0V is fan at 100% and +10V is fan off, with different RPMs in between. This seems like a backwards design but maybe it was made this way so if the Phill circuitry were to fail the fan would come on as not to risk gas buildup and a explosion or something.

                            The new fan does not have this "custom" control circuit so it runs all the time when the Phill is plugged in. So I just unplug the Phill when it is not in use.
                            -------------
                            moore101
                            2000 Toyota Camry CNG
                            FuelMaker Phill v1.0

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Resolved: Help my Phill is dieing!

                              That sound much like fans use in PCs.

                              I'd keep bugging Fuel Maker about a replacement fan. If they say no then tell the your going to contact the BBB and your state agency. They is no excuse, except for pure greed, to not have a replacement fan.
                              John

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