No announcement yet.

phill questions

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • phill questions

    is it worthwhile installing a second meter for phill ? i was told i get tagged $10.- per months for doing the combined rate... plus sep meter i would know how much gas i use for driving...

    can i qualify for a lower electric rate since i will be using quite some electricity for the phill or will i be punished for using to much juice ?


  • #2
    Re: phill questions

    I do not know your utility rates, mine is from the SoCalGas.
    If I do nothing at all I am subject to the regular rate with under and over base line.
    under baseline price is $0.85079/Therm
    over baseline price is $1.03367/Therm

    In summer month the base 'allowance' is 0.473 therms/day (April-Oct.)
    In winter month the base 'allowance' is 1.691 therms/day (Nov.-March)

    Let's do the example for i.e. 100 therms per month (30 days).
    in summer total $100.77:
    14.18 therms for $0.85079 = $12.06
    85.82 therms for $1.03367 = $88.71

    in Winter total $94.09:
    50.73 therms for $0.85079 = $43.16
    49.27 therms for $1.03367 = $50.93

    On top of that there is a base or service rate of about $0.1 /day, so add another $3 to the price above.

    If you apply for the combined rate (G-NGVR) this service rate is about $0.32 /day, and a fixed $0.72167/Therm
    Totaling to about $82.12 per month (100 Therms)

    And than there is tax, but that would be the same amount regardless of program since it is per therm.

    If you install a 2nd meter for your own use to monitor what your NGV is using, there is no difference.
    I believe you might be able to install a 2nd meter so you can have a 2ndary service line with its own billing etc. But this is not the combined rate.

    Hope this helps.


    • #3
      Re: phill questions

      great thanks ! what do you know about the electric part of it ?


      • #4
        Re: phill questions

        I have not really monitored the electric power, but PHILL uses about 800W.
        In my case I installed a timer so the unit turns off after a set time (usually I let it run 5-6h).
        5h x 800W = 4kWh of electricity per day and 120kWh for the 30 days.
        If you use $0.10 per kWh (incl. tax, fees etc.), but it might be slightly less.
        So you have to add another $12 or so to the monthly cost.

        Keep in mind the example earlier of 100 therms is the total usage of your house, not just PHILL and the 5h/day fill time may not really correlate to that.
        I just started last week to keep track with the usage.

        Maybe other member of this forum have also some ideas of how much therms one can get out from PHILL at different tank levels (I try to keep mine just about 1/2 full when the unit turns off).


        • #5
          Re: phill questions

          Why do you turn Phill off with a timer rather than just letting it fill the tank and shut off by itself?
          02 GX
          01 GX
          03 Crown Vic
          06 GX
          Home Fueler


          • #6
            Re: phill questions

            my commute is about 100 miles/day and I do not want to fill up my tank all the way, since after 100 miles it would just be above 1/2 when I return.
            keeping the tank low allows for PHILL to pump more gas per hour than if the tank would be filled i.e. from 1/2 to full.
            In the long run I get more GGE for the 6000h in operation until I have to get it refurb.
            Since I also got a extra meter in line I noticed that if the tank is empty it takes 50sec. for 1 cubic-foot of gas (100 sqf = 1 Therm, and 1.25 Therm = 1gge).
            If the tank is about 60% full (3 of 5 LEDs on PHILL are on) then it takes 70sec for 1 cubic-foot of gas. which is 40% longer for the same amout of energy.
            For this reason I try to return home with an almost empty tank, each day and fill only what I need.
            Sorry I do not have the number for when the tank is almost full. Maybe other members have some numbers on this.


            • #7
              Re: phill questions

              ohmygas: also remember if you drive with a full tank you also have the weight of the extra fuel in your car thus make the car more heavy and consumes more fuel.. This might only be like 5-10kg.. but anyway

              But what you say makes sense to me! You phill also consumes less electrical power this way.. I believe your phill also uses more electrical power per minute if the tank is almost full because it has to compress the gas to a higher pressure.. and also it takes longer time to compress the same amount of gas.. Can you measure the power consumed by your phill in the early process and in the later process with the tank almost full?
              Fuel statistics ->
              Volvo S60 Bi-Fuel Automatic -06
              Average consumption: 34,4MPG
              Living in Sweden (We don?t have polar bears on our streets)