Phill software for series 1

[holtek]

Do any of you kind souls out there have a copy of the Phill diagnostic software for a series 1 Phill? Of course the software for a series 2 does not seem to work for a series 1. I am experiencing an intermittent "no pressure rise" error and would like to try to disable this feature.

[freedml]

Re: Phill software for series 1

Hi, I have a handheld programmer which can turn that feature on or off.

[Amfuel]

Re: Phill software for series 1

That would be a "low pressure rise" Code 00111 and has nothing to do with a software error.

You have a leak. It could be the noozle, breakaway connector, hose, or the vehicle. Also a restriction of the inlet piping could cause this error but usually will code 00001.

If your error code is different let us know what the code is so a more exact diagnosis can be made.

Codes are read from the top down 0= off, 1=on

[holtek]

Re: Phill software for series 1

I'm quite sure that there is no leak. I can pressurize the hose all the way up to full scale with no fault. I can fill up at a service station without incident. If there was a leak, I'd smell it and/or the gas detector would go off. It's so sensitive that I can't keep my garbage cans anywhere near the phill!

The error displayed is the bottom three lights. This usually happens when it is really cold in the garage, and especially if I'm filling my crown vic from empty. I would call this as a nuisance fault because if there was a legitimate leak one of the two redundant gas sensors would kill the whole system. Also, this error just started happening mid-way through the fill cycle (just before the third light should come on). My gut feeling is that the pump isn't filling as fast as it used to so the pressure rise fault is triggering.

All I want to do is disable this stupid feature.

[HRAguy]

Re: Phill software for series 1

I'm quite sure that there is no leak. I can pressurize the hose all the way up to full scale with no fault. I can fill up at a service station without incident. If there was a leak, I'd smell it and/or the gas detector would go off. It's so sensitive that I can't keep my garbage cans anywhere near the phill!

The error displayed is the bottom three lights. This usually happens when it is really cold in the garage, and especially if I'm filling my crown vic from empty. I would call this as a nuisance fault because if there was a legitimate leak one of the two redundant gas sensors would kill the whole system. Also, this error just started happening mid-way through the fill cycle (just before the third light should come on). My gut feeling is that the pump isn't filling as fast as it used to so the pressure rise fault is triggering.

All I want to do is disable this stupid feature.

This "stupid feature" might just save your life one day.

The HRA has three methods of checking for leaks in the delivery system
1) Hose Leak Check- This test is performed at start-up, and then again every 2 hours while the unit is operating. During this test, the compressor will run for a short period of time,(to build hose pressure), then it will Stop, Wait and Look to see if there is a pressure drop. If there is a pressure drop, then there is a leak somewhere in the unit.

2) Sudden Pressure Drop. If the delivery hose is "severed" the unit will see a sudden pressure drop and the unit will shut down. This test is performed every few seconds.

3) Pressure Rise Monitoring, The HRA also constantly monitors the High Pressure Transducer (HPT) to ensure that the delivery pressure (Tank Pressure) is always increasing. This routine is used to catch any leaks that occur while the unit is operating.

If your Hose or Nozzle develops a leak "DURING" the filling cycle, the Pressure Rise Monitoring will shut the unit down.

Remember, in order to shut down on a Sudden Pressure Drop error, the hose has to be almost completely severed. (open hose).

If you turn off the Pressure Rise Monitoring, you could potentially be dumping several liters a minute of natural gas into your garage before the Hose Leak Check detected it. (performed every 2 hours)

[holtek]

Re: Phill software for series 1

If this is so crucial to operational safety, why did they include a way to defeat it through software? Just sayin'

In order for this fault to NOT be a nuisance, you would have to provide a way to calibrate the system for changing pump performance and the volume of the fuel system being filled.

This feature also makes it impossible to use the Phill in a cascade setup by the way. Yes, I know it's not intended for that but I couldn't afford a FMQ-2 without the subsidies some of you guys get.

[HRAguy]

Re: Phill software for series 1

If this is so crucial to operational safety, why did they include a way to defeat it through software? Just sayin'

In order for this fault to NOT be a nuisance, you would have to provide a way to calibrate the system for changing pump performance and the volume of the fuel system being filled.

This feature also makes it impossible to use the Phill in a cascade setup by the way. Yes, I know it's not intended for that but I couldn't afford a FMQ-2 without the subsidies some of you guys get.

The software defeat is needed in order to perform the final burn-in test at the factory. Back at FuelMaker, every HRA was run for 48 hours at a constant back pressure of 3600 psig using Natural Gas. This testing was conducted in a controlled environment that was directly vented to the outside. There were numerous safety systems involved (Main Fans, Redundant Fans, Several Gas Detectors, Main Safety Gas Cutt-offs, Redundant Safety Gas Cut-offs, 3.5 Million BTU Flare Stack, Intrinsic Safety Controls, Primary PRV's, Secondary PRV's, Back-up Secondary PRV's, Daily Safety Checks,TSAA and Government inspections etc.)

Why was this all needed....to help keep us alive so we could warn others not to turn of the pressure rise monitoring when the units are used indoors....

Just answering....

BTW,
In the case of the HRA, the units are calibrated for a maximum tank size of 150 liters. If you are using a tank larger than this, you should not be using a HRA. (this is very well documented)

The VRA is very similar, with the exception that the tank size is programmable.

And... you can tell your wife "your welcome, it was my pleasure to help keep you alive"

[holtek]

Re: Phill software for series 1

I'm sure my wife would be a lot more more upset about the car. Please don't take this personally, HRAguy, but I think your attitude is the number one reason fuelmaker is out of business. My water heater is a lot more likely to blow up my house than any refueling appliance. Nevertheless, thank you for your advise and concern. I now have a $6000 boat anchor.

[scott]

Re: Phill software for series 1

Hang in there HRAguy.

[Convert2CNG]

Re: Phill software for series 1

3) Pressure Rise Monitoring, The HRA also constantly monitors the High Pressure Transducer (HPT) to ensure that the delivery pressure (Tank Pressure) is always increasing. This routine is used to catch any leaks that occur while the unit is operating.

Are there any numbers available as to what is expected in pressure rise at what interval? Maybe Holtek can add some instruments and verify that indeed the pump's performance is causing the problem, or might be the HPT, or something else. Sure, having a software means to disable this check temporarily would be the quickest way to find out.

[HRAguy]

Re: Phill software for series 1

I'm sure my wife would be a lot more more upset about the car. Please don't take this personally, HRAguy, but I think your attitude is the number one reason fuelmaker is out of business. My water heater is a lot more likely to blow up my house than any refueling appliance. Nevertheless, thank you for your advise and concern. I now have a $6000 boat anchor.

OK, point taken, and I actually do fully understand the grief that you (and many many others) are feeling.

I just get a bit concerned when people start talking about defeating safety systems.

Lets try to diagnose your problem first.
1) I need some information about your units, the unit Serial Number and total hours on the Machine will help. (also, has this unit ever been serviced before, if so, when?)
2) How long does it take for the unit to fill the Hose? (when COLD)
*Do not Connect nozzle to vehicle
*Press Start
*How many seconds does it take before the unit shuts down?
*When it shuts down, how many lights are "on"?
*After a few seconds, the unit should start up again.
*How many seconds does it run for before it shuts down on "Tank Full" ?

I then need you to run the unit (while connected to the vehicle) for at least 2 hours to warm it up, then perform the test again.

[freedml]

Re: Phill software for series 1

There may be an issue with Phill operating in cold ambient temperatures. Another user here in the So. Cal. mountains had a problem where his Phill wouldn't work when it was really cold. If you can somehow warm up the area where Phill is maybe that would help.

[HRAguy]

Re: Phill software for series 1

There may be an issue with Phill operating in cold ambient temperatures. Another user here in the So. Cal. mountains had a problem where his Phill wouldn't work when it was really cold. If you can somehow warm up the area where Phill is maybe that would help.

I have seen quite a few units that have leaked during cold weather. FuelMaker was investigating a potential O-Ring "compression set" issue on the 4th stage outlet fitting when we closed down last April.

There was another issue with the 4th stage cylinder sleeve that sometimes appeared after the unit warmed up.

Performing the test when the unit is Cold, and then again after 2 hours (Hot)might help identify the problem.

If it turns out to be an O-Ring problem, then a field repair may be possible. If it is a cylinder sleeve issue, then the problem will be a lot more difficult to resolve.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can convince BRC to change their policy on making replacement parts available?

[sethdallob]

Re: Phill software for series 1

I'm pretty sure that mine is the one being referred to. However, I have a "non-user servicable error" (all 5 lights on) that somehow fixes itself when warm. The diagnostic tool said that I have a motor controller failure.

I have a nice boat anchor too.