fuelmaker installation

[jfchenoweth]

I just purchased a fuelmaker. Installation requires it to be placed outside. What are the reasons for this. I am in Iowa an the outside temperature can be very cold. How does this effect the compresor and its ability.

[John Mitton]

Re: fuelmaker installation

I assume it must be an FM4 or FM2 (or a really old C3)?
They are built in Canada, where they have a large market so if you think Iowa is cold... But seriously, they need to be outside because unlike Fuelmaker's Phill appliance, there is no natural gas sensor to turn the thing off should a leak occur. The potential to fill the garage with natural gas is a serious risk.

Also, don't try to install it outside and then punch a hole into the garage for the hose. In addition to the gas leak risk, you also risk overfilling the vehicle's tank as the device fills based on ambient temperature of the device's air intake -- which could differ significantly from inside the garage.

59F and above = 3600 psi
50F = 3370
32F = 3050
14F = 2730
-4F = 2390
-22F = 2073
-40F = 1754

Believe it or not, a 3600 psi tank is actually full at all of the above temperatures (same weight of natural gas has been loaded onboard)! I am going to move this over to the Refueling forum for others to chime in on topic.

[jfchenoweth]

Re: fuelmaker installation

I have heard people placing the sensor located on the fuelmaker insided to fool the fuelmaker.

[Curtis]

Re: fuelmaker installation

The aforementioned regulation is a fire dept reg. I'd hate to have an accident and have my homeowners insurance kick me to the curb because I thought I could beat the system. There are many reasons, as John pointed out, not to circumvent the system. Most fire codes prohibit the unit from being installed close enough to the garage that the hose can be brought inside.

Fuelmaker has a remote fueling setup that would allow you to refuel more comfortably in inclement weather. I think someone here has that setup and could elaborate on it for us.

[freedml]

Re: fuelmaker installation

Also, unlike Phill, there is no system to vent compressor leaks to the outside. Mine had a massive compressor leak once and I'm sure glad it was outside! BTW the Phill leak sensor may not detect a compressor leak since a fan constantly purges the cabinet to the outside.

[scott]

Re: fuelmaker installation

This has been my experience as well. I recently had a compressor leak with an outdoor Phill system. It did not shut down. The factory was very prompt with a replacement.

[Timon]

Re: fuelmaker installation

There is a indoor fueling panel for the FM series. It move the temp sensor and natural gas leak detector indoors. I have no idea how much it costs or if it's only for commercial use.

[taz]

Re: fuelmaker installation

I assume it must be an FM4 or FM2 (or a really old C3)?
Also, don't try to install it outside and then punch a hole into the garage for the hose. In addition to the gas leak risk, you also risk overfilling the vehicle's tank as the device fills based on ambient temperature of the device's air intake -- which could differ significantly from inside the garage.

59F and above = 3600 psi
50F = 3370
32F = 3050
14F = 2730
-4F = 2390
-22F = 2073
-40F = 1754

Believe it or not, a 3600 psi tank is actually full at all of the above temperatures (same weight of natural gas has been loaded onboard)! I am going to move this over to the Refueling forum for others to chime in on topic.

hmm.. I think its the other way around... When you have the unit outside it lowers the pressure because when you fill the car outside the tanks are cold and the gas takes less space when its cold. If you then drive it inside and temperature raises 20C the gas would expand and pressure will rise inside the tanks (dont remember how many bars/psi now)..

If you fill the car the way you describe the outside unit will compensate for the cold weather and lower the fill pressure.. But because the car is inside and you fill it to lets say 2390 psi... When you then take the car outside again (into the cold weather) the pressure in the tanks will decrease even more.. For example to 2000psi (just a value)...

If you place the unit inside and the car outside.. This could be dangerous.. The unit then thinks its hot outside and pump the car full 3600psi.. But the tanks are cold.... If you then place the car inside the garage the gas would expand and the pressure will rise.. 4000 maybe more psi? (I dont bother to find the formula for it now) ..

Of coure it could also be the other way around.. It could be cooler in the garage than the outside.. Then the other way around is also dangerous... Thats why you should have the unit in the same enviroment as your car when you fill it!