Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

[moore101]

Well my wonderfully unreliable Phill unit is giving me fits again. Currently the error is a no pressure rise (3 lower lights). I have checked the hose and car for leaks, none found, even cracked open the unit to check the high pressure lines coming from the pump all ok. Just for kicks was going to check the o-ring on the line coming from the compressor and was quite surprised to hear and smell CNG escaping when the fitting was loosened. Decided to just sung it back up and try everything again. Suprisingly the unit ran all night without errors, it has not worked for more than an hour or so for the past month. Picture and info from another thread showing the fitting: http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showthr...?t=1858&page=5

Could anyone explain what might be happening?
Does anyone have access to the phill diagnostic software and service information so I can get more information?

PS- My Phill is at 4200-4500 hours currently so spending big $$ in fixing it may not be a viable option at this point.
Thanks,
Loran

[Amfuel]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

Have you checed the low pressure at the inlet? It coud be that your line pressure regulator is not acting/reacting to pressure changes. A sticking regulator? The supply line must maintain a minimum of 6"wc.

The list for the 3 lower lights fault are:
Nozzle
Breakaway
Hose
Inlet piping
Vehicle

[moore101]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

I have not checked the gas pressure at the phill but have not had any problems with other gas appliances in the house. The phill taps into the main 1" line and has a dedicated 1/2" line that runs 25' to the garage.

My other gas appliances include dryer, pool heater, and water heater. The phill only runs at night and nothing else is consuming gas so a low supply pressure would be unlikely. The problem started "out of the blue" also.


One interesting note is if I let the phill run with the hose disconnected from the car it ran for 5 minutes without stopping and showing 4/5 lights. Is it possible that the compressor is dead at 4500 hours?

[CaptJeff]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

PMFJI,
If you're doing a 'hose fill', as in actuating Phill without being connected to the car, this fills the hose and should ramp up to 5 lights rather quickly and shut off. The fact that it runs for 5 minutes indicates to me that something is amis, but whether it's a compressor or leak problem, I wouldn't know. Doesn't sound like anything associated with gas input at all, though.

I've heard of a 'no pressure rise' error when trying to fill a tank that was run very empty, (ran out, waited a minute, ran a little more, etc.) and the person had to restart phill many times to get enough pressure to get it going...

Best,
Jeff

[mikejacobs]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

PMFJI,
If you're doing a 'hose fill', as in actuating Phill without being connected to the car, this fills the hose and should ramp up to 5 lights rather quickly and shut off. The fact that it runs for 5 minutes indicates to me that something is amis, but whether it's a compressor or leak problem, I wouldn't know. Doesn't sound like anything associated with gas input at all, though.

I've heard of a 'no pressure rise' error when trying to fill a tank that was run very empty, (ran out, waited a minute, ran a little more, etc.) and the person had to restart phill many times to get enough pressure to get it going...

Best,
Jeff

Jeff,

Yes if the tank is run empty or a new one never filled you will have to restart

Phill many times to get enough pressure to get it going... If you have a station by you its quicker to get it filled there first then top it off with phil after a use...

[mikejacobs]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

PMFJI,
If you're doing a 'hose fill', as in actuating Phill without being connected to the car, this fills the hose and should ramp up to 5 lights rather quickly and shut off. The fact that it runs for 5 minutes indicates to me that something is amis, but whether it's a compressor or leak problem, I wouldn't know. Doesn't sound like anything associated with gas input at all, though.


Best,
Jeff

No its not associated with gas input

moore101 you said you have 4200 to 4500 hours on it

sounds like its near its time. Pumping cng thru a compressors stages has a lot of wear on it. Getting a compressor to maintain those pressures for the hours Phil did for you was Good unit. I would hold off on investing on any repairs.
Unless you have no choice. then you have too

If when they come out with a piston overhall kit @ a reasonable price

I think piston seal kit should be not around the 500 dollar range.

[Amfuel]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

If you don't put a meter on the incoming gas line, you're just guessing that it is OK. Is there an excess flow valve? Is there a drip leg? Maybe your gas supply is weak or the inlet screen is getting dirty. First you have to be positive that the incoming gas is proper (above 6"wc when running) then you can look at the rest of the possible faults. It is just as important as making sure a dead machine has power to it. It is basic diagnostics.

You shoud also have a 1 liter test kit to connect and check the actual fill time. I have had complaints of slow fill time and yet the test came in better than nominal. Don't even think about a compression issue without a fill test. Do the tests at the same time of day that the Phill is usually used, if possible.

Yes, Phill's will have to be restarted many times on tanks that have no initial pressure and the readout will be "low pressure rise".

[ogdobber]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

i don't know if you fixed your problem...but I had the same error code and it was a leaking o-ring. you can see in the picture the "blow-by" I ordered a new o-ring.But for a quick fix, i put some waterproof clear grease on the old o-ring and it never failed again. I put in the new o-ring just for good measure...

[ciaomane26]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

i don't know if you fixed your problem...but I had the same error code and it was a leaking o-ring. you can see in the picture the "blow-by" I ordered a new o-ring.But for a quick fix, i put some waterproof clear grease on the old o-ring and it never failed again. I put in the new o-ring just for good measure...

I found that my Phill unit is leaking at the same location as yours. How much and where did you order your o-ring from? Also, did you use any type of grease (ie. silicon grease) on the new o-ring installation? Thanks in advance.

[sjseng]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

After a almost two years of being out of commission, I fixed my Phill today thanks to the last two posts. I had a "Non-servicable" error at times and also "Internal gas alarm" error. Replaced the O-ring for $5.00 and it is filling up great! I did use the Shin-Itsu white grease that I also use on the low and High pressure fuel filter o-rings of the Civic GX. We'll see how long it lasts, maybe another year or so. Very easy to repair (once I figured out what it was). I found the O-ring at Applied Indust. Tech. in Fairfield, CA. O-ring Part number size 113.

[sjseng]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

I'm providing an update to this simple fix.

Using the Honda Shin-Itsu was not a great idea. The O-ring actualy 'slipped' by the pipping and caused another leak. This was within 1 or 2 weeks of the initial fix. I had to order another O-ring (ordered 4). I installed the new ring with no grease and it has been working just fine. Almost 5000 hrs on my Phill now.

[BrianS]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

OK I just purchased a 06 refurbished at the factory Phill HRA 1.0v. I also gives me the 00111 no pressure rise.

I can't smell gas anywhere.
Can't hear a leak.
Hose pressures up fine.
Connect to F150 and after 2-5 minutes I get the error.
It's fills up fine at quick-fill stations.

I suspect the break away connection, although I can't smell or detect any leaks there. While unpacking the factory packed unit my helpful friend grabbed the two ends of the hose and connected them. Grrrrr, I have no idea if he did it properly or not and the connection is so tight I can't get it apart. Sigh . . . Help please . . . ?

[BrianS]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

OK now this has happened.

[Lakewood90712]

Re: Phill broken - Now what?

Normal start is soft start low rpm ramping up then stop , 3 times for leak check. The you tube video did not sound normal at all. Who sold you the unit ? I have never herd of fuelmaker selling refurb units.

[BrianS]

Re: Phill broke again (No pressure rise error)

I bought it from a private party that sent it in for a refurb. Cost a little over $2500, praying that a sale to third party does not nullify any warranty that may come with the unit. The first time it happened was after another shut down like what I explained above with error 00111, I was smelling for gas around the 1/2 inch inlet and PRV. I wiggled the inlet and that's when the sound started, without pressing the "START" or any other button. I shut it down with the "STOP" button, waited for 30 seconds, removed the fill nozzle and unplugged the unit. I was hoping this would reset the unit. I waited about 30 seconds and plugged it back in, it immediately turned itself back on and the sound started up all over again. This time I could not stop it by pressing the "STOP" button. I'm screwed aren't I?


p.s. Should I move this to it's own thread as I don't want to derail this one.