FMQ-2-36 Installation in Monterey - Distance from Adjacent Structures

[jschaub]

I'm going through the permit process to install an FMQ-2-36 at my home in Monterey, CA. Based on my discussions with the City, it appears this is a case of first impression - not too many requests like mine from others in the City. As such, my permit application is in a grey area.

Initially, the City wanted at least 10 feet between the FMQ and any structure with openings. The proposed installation site is about 9 feet from the eave of one home and 7 feet from the eave of another home, measured from the top of the FMQ up and over to the eave.

I'm not sure where the 10 foot requirement came from. The requirement is apparently intended to reduce the likelihood of escaping gas being trapped in places like roof overhangs of nearby structures.

NFPA 54 and the FMQ Installation manual do not prohibit installations closer than 10 feet. NFPA 52 Sect. 10.5 requires vent lines to "convey escaping gas to the outdoors and then upward to a safe area to prevent impinging on buildings, other equipment, or areas open to the public." I plan to install a 3/8" inside diameter steel vent line from the FMQ NPT vent connection and routed 10' high - above the roofline of both structures. Hopefully that will suffice.

I know others have installed FMQs less than 10 feet from structures in other areas of the country. Pointers to evidence of such installations, with pictures, would be appreciated. Examples in other areas of California would be particularly useful. I want to present examples to the City to show them that other municipalities found installations like the one I propose to be acceptable.

[Alaska GX]

Re: FMQ-2-36 Installation in Monterey - Distance from Adjacent Structures

The key is in the terminology....the FMQ2-36 is a 'UL listed appliance' and the installation requirements are as noted on the appliance.

The AHJ ( authority having justdiction) does not tell you how to install your kitchen range.

Try it..it usually works unless there is a specfic prohibition.

[Amfuel]

Re: FMQ-2-36 Installation in Monterey - Distance from Adjacent Structures

The NFPA requires 10' unless it is a non-combustible wall or of limited combustion. I don't know what the definition for limited combustion is though.

With the outdoor installation a vent tube is not required as long as the existing vent does not have a chance of obstruction.

10' from building openings is required.

Here is an attached flyer that I use showing a Q-2 by a house and other products.

[Alaska GX]

Re: FMQ-2-36 Installation in Monterey - Distance from Adjacent Structures

The NFPA requires 10' unless it is a non-combustible wall or of limited combustion. I don't know what the definition for limited combustion is though.

With the outdoor installation a vent tube is not required as long as the existing vent does not have a chance of obstruction.

10' from building openings is required.

Here is an attached flyer that I use showing a Q-2 by a house and other products.

Amfuel

Could I get chapter and verse for the clearance requirement on a listed device ?

Thanks

[cngaz]

Re: FMQ-2-36 Installation in Monterey - Distance from Adjacent Structures

Sounds like they are trying to use the international code which does not have anything on home fueling.
Just need to show them the CSA certification as an appliance
CSA is the certification arm of the American Gas Association
NFPA 52 does have home fueling included
Many of the permit officials try to use the same requirements as a fast fill.
The key is the gas flow, thats why home units are time fill with no storage, you keep the flow level down and that keeps you out of the commercial site requirements catagory. That cuts down on the distance requirements they try to impose.
Everything in the FuelMaker install manual is in compliance with NFPA.

[jschaub]

Re: FMQ-2-36 Installation in Monterey - Distance from Adjacent Structures

Sounds like they are trying to use the international code which does not have anything on home fueling.
Just need to show them the CSA certification as an appliance
CSA is the certification arm of the American Gas Association
NFPA 52 does have home fueling included
Many of the permit officials try to use the same requirements as a fast fill.
The key is the gas flow, thats why home units are time fill with no storage, you keep the flow level down and that keeps you out of the commercial site requirements catagory. That cuts down on the distance requirements they try to impose.
Everything in the FuelMaker install manual is in compliance with NFPA.

Thanks for the comments. The permit was approved.

I think the 10-foot requirement came from NFPA 52 Sect. 8.4.2. I pointed out that Chapter 8 deals with CNG compression and storage in commercial settings. Whereas Chapter 10 of NFPA 52 deals with CNG Residential fueling facilities. And Section 10.4.2 specifically exempts listed vehicle fueling appliances, like the FMQ-2-36, from the requirements of Section 8.4.

[Larryect]

Re: FMQ-2-36 Installation in Monterey - Distance from Adjacent Structures

Great stuff to know and share. Thanks

[Amfuel]

Re: FMQ-2-36 Installation in Monterey - Distance from Adjacent Structures

Sorry about not replying. Glad to hear you have educated some more officials.

NFPA 54 gets into it too with the low pressure gasses. I see the NFPA is selling a handbook now.