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  • Phill/fm-2/fm-4/c-3/????

    Looking to avoid being taken advantage of when buying a used pump. Is there anything that has been put together to outline the good and the bad on used pumps? I understand the Phill is the slowest and has to be sent to Canada to be rebuilt. What is the difference between a FM-2 and a FM-4?

    Tim

  • #2
    Re: Phill/fm-2/fm-4/c-3/????

    Originally posted by timlucky1 View Post
    Looking to avoid being taken advantage of when buying a used pump. Is there anything that has been put together to outline the good and the bad on used pumps? I understand the Phill is the slowest and has to be sent to Canada to be rebuilt. What is the difference between a FM-2 and a FM-4?

    Tim
    Tim -- I was in your spot just a few weeks ago. Your decision will be based on several factors: miles you drive, length (speed) of fill time, number of CNG vehicles you have, location of the pump (PHILL is indoors - FM4, FM2, FMQ2-36 are outdoors ONLY with permitted (code) placement factors to consider), fueling hours between HEAD replacement/rebuilds (2,400, 3,000, and 4,000 hours), and the HEAD replacement costs. This being said, I could not afford a new FMQ2-36 -- upwards of $13,000.00 just to buy (sales tax), shipping and installation. I did buy a used FM4 for $5,500.00. It has a new HEAD with less than 50 fueling hours on it and the circut board (the unit has just one - like a computer's "mother board") is factory new from FuelMaker. The FM2 replaced the FM4 -- no decernable differences between the two units, though I may be corrected on this point from a FM2 owner. In my oppinion, look to buy a used unit as they can be rebuilt endlessly for about $800.00 or so each time and can be bought for LESS MONEY. If you are a commuter (Lancaster to the world BELOW, I assume) do not buy a PHILL -- Too costly and too slow to fill. Recent prices for used equipment that I have encountered; a rebuilt FMQ2-36 -- $6,700.00 + tax (posted on this web site, fill rate to 3,600 psi) and $7,000.00 for a FM2 (only fills to 3,000 psi like the FM4). Also factor in the $1,000.00 IRS credit (Form 8911) weather you install a new OR used unit.

    I am sure that your querry will attract many replys from owners of various home refueling stations with varying circumstances. LISTEN TO THEM ALL. I did. Then I applied my situation as best I could and bought a unit that will serve my needs well at a budget that I could afford.

    Good luck to you in your search.

    Cal.

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    • #3
      Re: Phill/fm-2/fm-4/c-3/????

      Here's a Phill vs. FMQ comparison I made.

      http://www.cnginfoguide.com/node/26
      Devin

      http://www.cnginfoguide.com

      http://feedproxy.google.com/CngInformationGuide
      http://feedproxy.google.com/CngForSale

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Phill/fm-2/fm-4/c-3/????

        Cal,

        Thanks for taking the time to reply. How can you tell the difference between the different heads (2,400, 3,000, and 4,000 hours)? Are there things to look at specifically or just take the sellers at there word?

        Thanks

        Tim

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        • #5
          Re: Phill/fm-2/fm-4/c-3/????

          Good job, Cal. Well grasshopper, it looks like the student has become the teacher. Great answer. I'm going to move this thread over to the Refueling Forum so that others with the same question can benefit from your comprehensive answer.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Phill/fm-2/fm-4/c-3/????

            Phill- cute little package over-rated
            FM2- 3600 psi model best FM has to offer for home use
            FM4- same as the 2 but 3000 psi
            C3- belongs in a museum
            Last edited by CNG MOTORS; 09-05-2008, 08:40 AM.
            sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
            SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

            2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
            2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
            1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
            2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

            FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

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            • #7
              Another comparison

              There is this thread too:
              http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23

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              • #8
                Re: Another comparison

                I hadn't heard of model 'FM2' before. Are there both FM2 and FMQ2-36 models?
                02 GX
                01 GX
                03 Crown Vic
                06 GX
                Home Fueler

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                • #9
                  Re: Phill/fm-2/fm-4/c-3/????

                  Please read the following re the C3: The FM$ etc is a takeoff from the C3 engineering!!!
                  I would like to know where you obtained your information on the C3.
                  We have an inventory of roughly 90-100 C3's. We also have spare parts for the C3. We have hundreds of hoses for C3's. We have lots of parts available.

                  You talked about a possible explosin hazard. Yes, in Montreal the plate between the control module and the manifold was defective. Fuelmaker identified that this was problem in 20-30 units. They did not research where these units were so they paid to replace the plate in all rental units and units that were in inventory.
                  FYI Fuelmakler designed and made the C1 as a prototype ( we have one of these). The next version was the C2 then the C3 in the 80's (not very old).
                  The C3 was too expensive for the average user, so their board of directors approached their engineers asking them to design an appliance with the same output, safety, diagnostics as the C3, but with a lower price. The engineers came up with the FM4 (Fuelmaker 4) which Fuelmaker started selling at a much lower price. The FM4 evolved to the FMQ etc etc.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Phill/fm-2/fm-4/c-3/????

                    Bob, with the (hopefully temporary) demise of Fuelmaker there will be a demand for parts for these units, or even complete units. If you have parts for sale there are several FM dealers here in the forum, as well a customers that would be interested in this equipment. If you are of a mind to sell any of the stuff you have, please list it in the Marketplace Forum.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Phill/fm-2/fm-4/c-3/????

                      Thaks for responding, I will indeed post information in your forum.
                      I believe that Fuelmaker has a white knight in the background. One who knows the value of the product and their service!!!
                      thanks, [email protected]
                      Last edited by Bob Hatton; 10-25-2009, 12:27 PM. Reason: old e-mail address compromosed

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                      • #12
                        Re: Phill/fm-2/fm-4/c-3/????

                        Originally posted by Bob Hatton View Post
                        Thanks for responding, I will indeed post information in your forum.
                        I believe that Fuelmaker has a white knight in the background. One who knows the value of the product and their service!!!
                        So do you think I should install the FM4 that I recently acquired? Questar will have to upgrade me to a higher flow gas meter and there will be some other installation expense to run pipe and electricity. I don't want to install it if I can't get the parts to rebuild it.
                        2004 Toyota Avalon bi-fuel
                        2013 Tesla Model S 85

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Phill/fm-2/fm-4/c-3/????

                          Double check your gas meter. I found out that the advertised flow was much lower than what the meter could handle. The contractors just had to turn the knob on my meter to get the increased pressure and thus more flow.

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