Fuelmaker Issues???

[trojancng]

Hi All-

I'm a new guy and have been reading some of the posts. First and foremost, has anyone had problems with Fuelmaker? Shortly after I bought my '08 Civic from Honda in Gardena, I submitted my information and gas co approval to Fuelmaker. After a few months and a few phone calls, I finally got them to send over the paperwork and take payment for ordering. My initial $4K phone estimate in February became $4200 in May, and 2 hours later when they sent me the actual authorization, it was $4450. I can see the 200 jump in 3 months, especially when they were just giving me a 'ballpark', but I couldn't see the $250 jump in 2 hours. They gave me some song and dance about some extra fitting for my installation, but they received the installation details from their installer in February. Even with the CARB rebate, it was no longer that attractive, and I really had no desire to work with a company that handled the process the way they did so I canceled. Has anyone else had issues with Fuelmaker?

Second, as far as the monopoly talk goes with Clean Energy, there is nothing standing in the way of new players in the market. Clean Energy is the one that made the investment and is taking the risk, so I think they deserve whatever people are willing to pay. When it gets high enough, new players will enter. It sounds like some of you may be more comfortable living in China or Cuba. The first to market in any industry gets and deserves benefits. Disclosure: The President and CEO of Clean Energy lives about 100 feet from my parents, but other than buying football tickets from them and getting some advice on CNG, I have no personal relationship with him or his family. I didn't even qualify for the 1.99 deal with the new Civic because they were way too slow locating one for me. I would have had the same thoughts regardless.

Greg

[freedml]

Re: Fuelmaker Issues???

Bite the bullet and buy the Phill. AQMD is paying for 1/2 anyway. You'll even get a nice break on the rest of the gas you use for your house. Fuelmaker isn't the greatest company but they are the only game in town at the moment.

Clean Energy maintains the stations well. That's the good news. That their contracts with the cities allow them to gouge retail customers is pretty sad. But, 3-4 years ago, SCG was doing a pretty bad job of maintaining their stations themselves. Would you rather have $0.64/gge and no pressure or $2.90 and a reliable 3600 fill? San Fernando didn't go with CE and their gas is $1.99/gge. Riverside is also reasonable. We'll see if they can maintain that over the long haul.

Until there are stations close enough together to give drivers a real choice, CNG is a monopoly. I'm about as 'free market' as anybody (and I have a degree in economics from a free-market school), but CE isn't doing it the 'free market' way. They're making deals with cities and getting use of the land for next to nothing. Until they buy/lease private land to put their stations on, they shouldn't have a right to charge Joe GX whatever they want.

[in_cognito]

Re: Fuelmaker Issues???

Fuelmaker is the only player in the game. So they don't have to care about customer service.

That said: Anytime I have called fuelmaker I have had great service from the employees.

Their contractors on the other hand only see dollar signs. Its been 10 days since the installer came by to look at the setup. Its simple almost a no brainer. The Gas and electric are within 2 feet of where the PHILL is to be installed. They havent yet sent me an estimate.

They really need to do some customer service training for their local contractors.

As it stands everyone is trying to take advantage of what they view as the GREEN wave thinking they can charge the customer inflated charges to get their cut of the "Green Pie".

My colleagues are watching my experience to see if they want to go CNG. They love my 08'GX but when I tell them about getting a PHILL they cringe hearing the time/effort etc. of getting one installed.

One solution for Fuelmaker would be to have more contractors certified in an area so there is a bit more competition and better turn around on the installs.

[freedml]

Re: Fuelmaker Issues???

I think they DO care. They just don't have competition to take business away from them that they haven't earned.

I had to go to I think 3 installers before I found one that was the 'least unreasonable.' The local Fuelmaker dealer refused to quote the job. I paid $900 for them to hang the Phill, take a 'y' off the water heater, and plug it in. FM wants you to go with the one they pick, who wanted $1800 if I recall correctly for the same job.

[scott]

Re: Fuelmaker Issues???

They do care. I have always had a good experience with Fuelmaker. Yes, the installers are quite expensive, but they do not sell Phill's in numbers large enough for installers to stand in line for certification (like hot water heaters, which are costing $900 to $1,200 to install in my area now). You guys who are in business for yourselves will know what I am talking about when it comes time to roll a truck and an employee to a job site. It all sounds so simple, but there are a lot of hours and expenses behind the scene you can't see.

[freedml]

Re: Fuelmaker Issues???

They give you one name and expect you to use that company. Among the few certified companies one charges twice as much as the other. That difference can't be 'hidden costs.'

[Adrian]

Re: Fuelmaker Issues???

They give you one name and expect you to use that company. Among the few certified companies one charges twice as much as the other. That difference can't be 'hidden costs.'

I guess it depends how you define "hidden". They're "hidden" alright...in their pockets with no objective justification like an hourly charge for the work done. While I respect business owners and understand their challenges in making a living....Phill installers don't need to skin us end users alive!!! If FM ever pulls their head out of their ass, they will allow ALL HVAC contractors to do the job and this will go away. Unfortunately FM has not demonstrated they can think clearly on this matter yet...They must be comfortable with their head in its current position. Having said all this I've noticed an improvement in how FM deals with customers..at least conversationally, if not financially. My experience with getting my second re-built Phill was relatively pain free, other than the money! My installer is also great, other than the money charged. Again, I think competition would take care of this.

Adrian

[Johnlaroux]

Re: Fuelmaker Issues???

I was lucky and got a company here in Arizona to purchace a Fuelmaker FMQ2 for me and I installed it myself. I then moved to a different city and reinstalled it again by myself. I just went to the city and got a building permit and installed it, and when the install passed inspection, the gas company installed the second gas meter for me. Now if I could only get Fuelmaker to sell me repair parts Ill be doing good. John