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**MrComment** · 05-14-2008, 09:04 AM

Re: Phill Died

1. Do you have space outside your garage to set it up?
2. Does your gas meter have enough capacity to supply it?
3. Will your subdivision allow it to be visible?

Other then that your pretty well set.

I'd find one on ebay, or in the marketplace forum (expect to pay about $5k for a good used FMQ2-36). You'll be much better off in the long run. IMO, Phill sounds like an expensive piece of crap to own.

Thats why I'm building my own comp, but thats another topic for a different day.

Stick with the FMQ.

**CNGfamily** · 05-14-2008, 10:14 AM

Re: Phill Died

Originally posted by MrComment View Post

3. Will your subdivision allow it to be visible?

FYI... I've put in a FMQ at two different homes with strict Homeowners Association rules. Just do the installation with a remote panel; the compressor is out of sight in the back yard. It does cost a bit more for the installation, but keeps the HOA happy

The FMQ is the way to go if you have the room for it, etc. Good luck!

**Steve** · 05-14-2008, 11:03 AM

Re: Phill Died

I think I have enough space outside my garage in the back and out of sight (woohoo!)

My gas meter has 7 inches water column (just over .25 psi) which is the minimum for the FMQ I believe.

And, I have 1 inch gas pipe all the way to my garage where it reduces to 3/4 inch inside my garage and then it reduces to 1/2 inch right before the Phill. The piping is almost nearly complete for an FMQ2 if it requires a full 1 inch pipe.

Now I just need to find an FMQ2.

Thanks for replies!
Steve

**MrComment** · 05-14-2008, 01:17 PM

Re: Phill Died

Pressure is important but additionally, you'll need to verify your gas meter's flow capacity. About 5mins of research on the web with manufactures model number should give you a good idea. It would also be a good idea to verify the gas regulators orifice size is large enough too, but of course this would be alot cheaper then a new gas meter.

For instance if you have an "American Meter Company" AL-250 as most homes in my area have. These will only flow up to 250 cu.ft/[email protected] (or approximately 250,000 btu/hr) and since your planning on placing a larger load on your gas line you'll need to double check that your existing homes load + the additional load of the FMQ (basically double that of the Phill) is not going to cause your line pressure to drop below .25psig with everything running at full capacity. Otherwise your FMQ will potentially shutdown unexpectedly will low inlet pressure warnings or worse yet your appliances (water heater, furnace, stove, etc.) will starve for fuel.

**cnguser** · 05-14-2008, 02:15 PM

Re: Phill Died

A-Men to MrComment's comment...
As I have posted previously, you will most likely run out of pressure when your house appliances are running, especially the furnace.
The FMQ-2 models run great, but need adequate supply. Just changing over from a Phill unit may leave you on the short side.
If you need a larger meter, your gas company may change it for no cost, as it is in my location. But you would likely need to furnish the regulators for house appliances and for the fueler.
Good luck!

**cngaz** · 05-14-2008, 02:22 PM

Re: Phill Died

Its always better to go to a 2nd meter and avoid working off the house system,
go for 1 1/4" piping and avoid a lot of low pressure problems when the VRA starts up.
cnguser is right, it has to stay above 1/4 psi/ 7" water column when everything is on or the Fuelmaker will error out.

**Steve** · 05-15-2008, 11:51 AM

Re: Phill Died

All excellent comments. I will check what the flow rate on the meter is. I kind of doubt that my gas company will install another meter free of charge (would be nice though) but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask.

Will the flow rate be listed on all my other gas appliances and is it a matter of adding all the flow together to make sure the grand total will come under what the flow rate is on the meter?

Thanks,
Steve

**Steve** · 05-15-2008, 07:17 PM

Re: Phill Died

Ok, my meter is the 250 CF / Hr type (I was of course hoping to be special). I added up all the BTU's in my appliances and it is just not going to be safe to keep the current setup that I have along with an FMQ. I guess I need to call my gas company to find out what options I have.

Thanks again for helping me figure this out.
Steve

**karlhafen** · 05-15-2008, 07:19 PM

Re: Phill Died

A little off topic but I was wondering. If you install a dedicated meter for your fuelmaker do you get to claim the $.50 gge federal or is that just for businesses?

**cngaz** · 05-16-2008, 07:33 AM

Re: Phill Died

Does not apply to private use, business use only, after you apply to pay the 18 cent per gallon Fed tax.

**Steve** · 05-16-2008, 07:40 AM

Re: Phill Died

I looked into this and you have to be able to charge the tax before you can take the rebate. Since the natural gas in your home is not charge the federal fuel tax for vehicles, you can't get the rebate.

But, back on topic,.... it seems like if I get a meter installed to increase the gas flow this would solve my problem. Am I thinking correctly? I called my gas company and they said that they would have to do some line tests to see if there could be enough gas flow and connect a larger capacity meter (say 450 cubic feet / hour). I prefer a higher capacity meter because installing a new meter complete with piping seems more costly and thus making the whole cost savings a bit out of reach.

Thanks,
Steve

**MrComment** · 05-19-2008, 07:20 AM

Re: Phill Died

A bigger meter would solve your problem, assuming your gas company's line tests pass.

Also assuming your have a way to meter your NG used for road use seperately from your home use. You can pay the road tax and get your rebate also. Worst case just form your own LLC (basically $100) and file the necessary quarterly excise tax paperwork, but paying the $0.18 road tax and claiming the $0.50 credit all happens at the same time. In the end you get back $0.32/gge.

To do this you should be able to use your old 250 meter but deticate it to your FMQ in series. The larger meter feeding the smaller submeter, which the gas company or contractor will install. This smaller 250 meter would then tell you exactly how much gas you used in your vehicles, and the gas company will still only have to read one meter at your house.

**Steve** · 05-21-2008, 03:02 PM

Re: Phill Died

MrComment (and others),

Thanks for the replies, they have been very helpful. My local gas company just called (Xcel Energy) and I just found out that my gas line can go up to 400 CF/Hr and the 250 CF/Hr meter that I have is spec'ed to be able to go to 400 CF/Hr as well. No need to install a new meter and all of my gas appliances while on should be well below the 400k BTU's.

It is an interesting comment about paying the fuel tax and then declaring the rebate as well. I will have to look into this. Since I am going to get an FMQ2-36 someday I might as well get one of those smallish meters installed to so that I can track the gas usage.

Steve

**rkcarguy** · 05-21-2008, 03:36 PM

Re: Phill Died

Originally posted by MrComment View Post

Thats why I'm building my own comp, but thats another topic for a different day.

Bravo! I'm very mechanically inclined and I know it can't be that hard to do. I'd imagine it's a multi stage type compressor with some serious gear reduction to obtain that pressure. IMO you're not moving that much volume, but packing it in there as far as pressure. I'd like to build one that hooked into the gas line just like the BBQ's do with the quick connect, and have a wheeled cart and use it wherever you want......