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Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

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  • #76
    Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

    Franz, any conversion whether it is EPA Approved or not has in common the high pressure tank, quarter turn valve, filter, filler, and high pressure tubing. These have to be NFPA52 compliant. The rest of the kit is made up of components that are common in every conversion. Many EPA Approved conversions have the some exact components as the Offshore kits. Whether or not they meet Emission standards depends on how efficient they are and how well they are tuned.
    As Franz stated" "Now, any converted vehicle MUST at least equal the OEM vehicle, and preferrably be cleaner than the OEM, or it simply cannot be converted. That is just plain common sense, good environmental logic, and anything else violates the EPA clean air mandate. Economical fuel is one thing, messing up the air with Carbon Monoxide, unburned Hydrocarbons, or high NOx is another."
    As time goes on we will ALL be able to convert our cars whether we use EPA kits or Offshore kits. The time will come when the EPA will let the States monitor themselves. Jim
    [email protected]
    801 427 2284
    Jim Younkin
    www.younkincng.com

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    • #77
      Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

      Originally posted by younkin View Post
      As time goes on we will ALL be able to convert our cars whether we use EPA kits or Offshore kits. The time will come when the EPA will let the States monitor themselves.
      Well, as a resident of a state who has long been monitoring itself, this isn't necessarily a GOOD thing...
      1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
      2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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      • #78
        Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

        The fact that there are hundreds of threads arguing these basic epa or non-epa points just proves that the already small CNG community will never unite and fight for widespread use of CNG. There is a million ways to kill a good idea, and they are all on this site!!

        Crazy that a few will ruin the future of a state or even country...it's happening, whether you see it or not. Last summer proved that people want a cheap local fuel and so many laws and regulations popped up it's crazy. CNG pumps have been here for like 20 years with no notice, once people starting using them, everyone wanted to regulate them, coincidence? YEAH RIGHT!!
        2000 Escalade (option 3 conversion) FOR SALE
        2004 F150 XLT (OEM conversion)
        2000 Camry (Awesome Car!!)

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        • #79
          Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

          Yep, all the good of CNG that was happening in last couple years is now dying under the last few days of the WORST President in history (that's what his nickname "W" stands for) with both the Utah PSC and the EPA coming down on cng - - - the ONLY clean fuel that USA should be using for next 10 to 15 years!!

          As for EPA, their new moniker is: E-methaneization Proclamation Assassination !!! Yep on this inauguration of the first black President in USA history, we the cng community are enduring our own struggles put in play by Bush Jr ("W" - - ie Worst President Ever) and all his cronies like Halliburton VP Cheney and their stupid friends in Big 3 automakers and Big Oil.

          Time for TRANSPORTATION REVOLUTION and boycott anything that GM, Ford, Dodge, Toyota, Nissan, EPA, Dept of Energy, Big Oil, etc. want to do or promote . . . UNLESS it includes massive investment in cng infrastructure, massive investment in CONVERSION (based on GLOBAL safety standards determined by industry) etc. so that cng has fighting chance of remaining low cost fuel for the masses rather than puppet on a string for people in power to yank around when they feel threatened that Big Oil's gravy train of milking the consumer is over!!!

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          • #80
            Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

            How do the legal conversion companies develop their kits?
            Do they only drive it in the parking lot until they get it approved?
            Do they get some kind of engineering and experimentation waver?

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            • #81
              Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

              I'm pretty sure it's mostly through waivers.
              1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
              2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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              • #82
                Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

                Originally posted by dogshed View Post
                How do the legal conversion companies develop their kits?
                Do they only drive it in the parking lot until they get it approved?
                Do they get some kind of engineering and experimentation waver?
                Certification generally require a lot of Dyno, 5 gas work, and "bag tests" using the various EPA certification Dyne tests. You to pass the EPA tests, so why not use their tests for development. Yea, there are runs on the road to determine it the conversion will perform in real life.

                larrycng

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                • #83
                  Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

                  You get an on-road testing exemption for a reasonable timeframe for your test vehicle(s). See attached from EPA as to how this is done.
                  Attached Files

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                  • #84
                    Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

                    Originally posted by John Mitton View Post
                    You get an on-road testing exemption for a reasonable timeframe for your test vehicle(s). See attached from EPA as to how this is done.
                    Wow. You can modify your car for "reasons of national security".

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                    • #85
                      Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

                      John, have you known of someone who used one of these exemptions? How much do they cost and how long could they last? It looks like originally they were for imported vehicles that didn 't have EPA Certs. BTW did you see Jacks Bill? Jim
                      Jim Younkin
                      www.younkincng.com

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                      • #86
                        Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

                        We routinely get these exemptions from EPA for our test vehicles at NaturalDrive. No fees whatsoever and the turn-around is about one week unless EPA needs more information from us. I have never asked for more than 6 months as we can usually get a certification done in that timeframe.

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                        • #87
                          Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

                          Originally posted by Highmarker View Post
                          rtry9a,

                          Consider what John said as a warning. Sorry, but rules are rules (even if the EPA wrote them). If you want persue installing an illegal kit that is your decision, however, do not promote it here on CNGChat (you will be banned).

                          I understand your frustration with EPA certified kits. I wish the EPA was more relaxed on the requirements for certifying CNG kits too. Maybe that's were we should focus some of our energy towards them and not sit here and complain about non-EPA certified kits.
                          Dave is right. The EPA is watching what is happening in this market segment and the last thing I am going to do is see this public forum get caught up in the inevitable crack-down.

                          Galileo is a huge company. If they want to play in this market they can get their kit certified with the EPA - especially if what you say is true that the OBDII will function with full OEM features post-conversion.

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                          • #88
                            Re: Whats the deal with non EPA conversions?

                            How legal are "fogging" kits; as opposed to direct injection? I had one installed by a certified mechanic at their shop.

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