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  • The best vehicle to convert?

    I was wanting to know if anyone could tell me what would be the best vehicle/engine to buy and convert to bi-fuel cng? I saw an ad from "Phoenix Energy" for a brand new conversion package for only $2,500.00 (4.3 liter). When I called them, the receptionist was clueless, took my number and nobody ever called me back. The Gm 4.3 liter seems like a great engine to convert, but I can't even find out who does it and what it costs. I am in Phoenix Arizona and would love to have an Envoy CNG, but what is the cheapest and most available conversion out there? Can anyone help?
    Last edited by afvman; 08-03-2008, 08:20 AM. Reason: change notification

  • #2
    Re: The best vehicle to convert?

    Dear dkellas,

    Your question is a good one and leads to the whole issue of certified vs. non-certified conversions. The question you should be asking is, 'Which vehicles CAN be converted?'

    The best source for certifiable (as opposed to insane) platforms is either the EPA listing: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/certdata.htm

    or the NGVAmerica listing: http://www.ngvc.org/pdfs/marketplace...ses.NGVs-a.pdf

    Stick with the certified systems.

    Best regards,

    afvman

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    • #3
      Re: The best vehicle to convert?

      so which is the best certified to convert?

      I recall a guy who had a cng van penelope? he said he was going to convert an old car legally. I want to say a mustang or camero?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The best vehicle to convert?

        Best vehicle to convert is one that you don't have to convert yourself. Let someone else take the hit for the conversion cost. :0)
        sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
        SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

        2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
        2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
        1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
        2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

        FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

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        • #5
          Re: The best vehicle to convert?

          Originally posted by CNG MOTORS View Post
          Best vehicle to convert is one that you don't have to convert yourself. Let someone else take the hit for the conversion cost. :0)
          What hit of conversion cost? CNG converted vehicles are selling at a premium equivalent to the cost of conversion over their non-CNG counterparts. You only need look at your own website inventory for evidence of that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The best vehicle to convert?

            Hit= $10,000 to convert get back maybe $7500 at resale

            Granted not all my vehicles will be comparable as this is. But heres a comparable vehicle for you. Look up a 2005 Super crew F150 4x4 in your local area should be about $21000 or so, I have one already converted for $19500 for sale.

            Cavaliers: sure lets talk about them. regular 04 cavalier what $4k-$5k at the most for a reg gas one, sure. Two CNG's sold at the last GSA sale to a public buyer for $11k.

            The premium was caused by the Utah market, at one time these vehicles did sell for the same amount as their gasoline counter parts. Not very long ago in fact. Premium and all still cheeper to find one already converted than to piece it together yourself. But what do I know.
            Last edited by CNG MOTORS; 09-09-2008, 07:37 PM.
            sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
            SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

            2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
            2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
            1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
            2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

            FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The best vehicle to convert?

              I am not questioning your knowledge, just making observations from combing today's market for a good deal on a CNG powered family vehicle for the last few months. I've been quoted between 5-10k to convert my Excursion. I bought it for less than 10k. Yours is for sale for around 18k. Factor in tax credits you may or may not get depending on which end of the conversion price spectrum you choose, and it's all even.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The best vehicle to convert?

                I think you nailed it "good deal on a CNG" not very easy to find anymore even on a Contour

                Yes my personal Excursion is for sale for $18k plus, but that is at a loss to me, yes I know hard to believe. 3 CNG tanks totaling 12 gge ($2500) 6 inch lift ($2250) new 20 inch rims and tires ($3300) recent motor work by a Ford dealer ($2200) 4 new brakes pads, rotors, and two calipers ($1800) Most Excursions don't look like my Excursion not bragging just saying if it were a reg Excursion with no lift or do dads then I would be selling for less. Got a Suburban that's more reeasonable 77k miles for $14500
                sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
                SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

                2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
                2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
                1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
                2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

                FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The best vehicle to convert?

                  Originally posted by pb4ugo View Post
                  Factor in tax credits you may or may not get depending on which end of the conversion price spectrum you choose, and it's all even.
                  There won't be any tax credits as any system installed on a late-model Excursion won't have an EPA certificate of conformity, now required in Utah for the credit.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The best vehicle to convert?

                    Good point John, which leads me to another question. My Excursion aswell as the other Suburban I mentioned had a cert back in 2000 when AZ was going crazy over this stuff. Are they grandfathered?
                    sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
                    SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

                    2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
                    2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
                    1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
                    2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

                    FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The best vehicle to convert?

                      Originally posted by John Mitton View Post
                      There won't be any tax credits as any system installed on a late-model Excursion won't have an EPA certificate of conformity, now required in Utah for the credit.
                      Fair enough. My point that conversions are every bit as cost viable still stands though on many vehicles. My Excursion I am in for 10k and it is every bit as nice as the the other one mentioned in this thread. I can convert it for 5k, leaving me quite a bit of change.

                      Murphy said it best himself. A good deal on a CNG vehicle doesn't really exist anymore due to the crazy Utah market. A good deal can be found left and right on pump gas burners. This may very well make conversion the more cost competitive choice. A full EPA compliant conversion costs close to 10k with a sizable tax credit available. I have seen quite a few examples of CNG cars fetching 8k more than their normal counterparts. While each situation is unique, I would venture a guess that at least 50% of the possible scenarios would favor conversion over buying one already converted.

                      OP- I'm sorry I don't have any input on your original question and did not mean to derail this thread, only offer an alternative view as far as conversion's cost feasibility.

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                      • #12
                        Re: The best vehicle to convert?

                        Originally posted by CNG MOTORS View Post
                        Good point John, which leads me to another question. My Excursion aswell as the other Suburban I mentioned had a cert back in 2000 when AZ was going crazy over this stuff. Are they grandfathered?
                        I think so. You just have to show a certificate of conformity which the installer should have put in the glovebox and under the hood.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The best vehicle to convert?

                          In most cases there's still one under the hood, but the letter is almost always missing from the glove box.
                          sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
                          SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

                          2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
                          2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
                          1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
                          2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

                          FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The best vehicle to convert?

                            Wow!!! There is so much information out there and when my head stops spinning . . . I don't think I got anything. What I was looking for was "get an Acme CNG for a GM 350 ci. They only run $1500 and are bullet proof". What about this {reference to illegal product removed by forum staff} thing. They say it is "plug and play" so what does that meen? I drive an 01 Mitsubishi Montero that gets 15 miles to the gallon and I'm just downsizing to an Outlander that gets 25 because I can't figure this CNG thing out. When does anyone think that we will have a good source of reasonably priced conversion kits or more choice in vehicles? How about a Chevy Silverado Hybrid CNG or a Ford Escape Hybrid CNG? Actually what this country needs right now is just a 1 liter Geo Metro for 10 grand.
                            Last edited by John Mitton; 09-13-2008, 01:47 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: The best vehicle to convert?

                              Originally posted by dkellas View Post
                              Actually what this country needs right now is just a 1 liter Geo Metro for 10 grand.
                              I think the Toyota Yaris comes close in price. I just drove one as a rental. It made me appreciate my Civic GX when I got back home!
                              Last edited by Adrian; 09-12-2008, 08:22 PM.
                              Adrian

                              Navy 2008 Civic GX (wife's)
                              Silver 2012 Toyota Prius
                              Grey 2012 Civic Natural Gas (mine)

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