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LEGAL non-EPA conversions

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  • johnyac
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    I asked for details. YouTube videos are a little weak on the install, but still, its information.

    http://www.route66goatgas.com/

    They are working on a second project.

    Leave a comment:


  • Highmarker
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    I will try to answer your questions as best I can.

    Originally posted by skip21al
    so basically this thread is saying the only "legal" non-EPA conversion applies to older vehicles. I'm still a little fuzzy on all this EPA and non-EPA. Once a company pays the godfather (EPA) a ton of money they can get a blessing to put a certified kit on a particular "engine A". That same kit can likely be installed on several other "engines B, C, and D", however it will not be "EPA certified". Am I correct?
    Yes, that is correct. In fact, it will only be ceritified for engine "A" for the year that is was installed. Allow me to explain. When a kit manufacturer has a kit EPA certified. It is certified for a specific make, year, and enigne family. And it is only certified for one year. If the kit manufacturer would like to continue having that kit installed on the make, year, and enigne family in following years, then it will have to go through a re-certification process. Example: Baytech will certify a kit for the 2010 GM 6.0L engine (bi-fuel). Let's say that they certified the kit in 2011. But, if Baytech wants to continue to sell this kit as "EPA Certified" in 2012 (keeping in mind that it is still only for the 2010 GM 6.0L engine), then it will have to be re-certified.

    The kit most likely will work for other engines, however, it might make the "check engine" light come on when running on CNG.

    Originally posted by skip21al
    Further... if I put one of these quality "non-EPA certified" kits on my vehicle "engine C" using an ASE Certified mechanic who knows how to install the conversion kit, will the government ever find out?
    The only way the government will find out is if you tell them. I guess the emission testing house could "turn you in", but who would they tell? I don't think that the EPA is going to go after one individual. However, some states are cracking down on non-EPA certified conversions. California is one of them as well as Utah. I will address Utah, because I see that is where you are from. In Utah, the individual County Health Departments control how to address this issue through the emission testings done each year on the vehicle. They may ask to see your "EPA Sticker" which certifies that the conversion is EPA certified. If your vehicle is not EPA certified, then you might fail the emission test and be able to register your vehicle.

    Originally posted by skip21al
    Will I qualify for state tax credits if applicable?
    In the state of Utah, no. To qualify for the state tax credit you must prove that the conversion is EPA certified.

    Originally posted by skip21al
    Does the mechanic have to report to my state that even though the kit and cylinder meets all the FMVSS 304 standards it is still not EPA certified?
    No.

    Leave a comment:


  • cripple_rooster
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    Originally posted by afvman View Post
    I just got back from the International NGV conference in Brazil and they have a LOT of that vintage still for sale. And, it meets the ISO standards if not ours.
    Usually fitted with CNG fumigation system or a drill in the carburettor to have a CNG line connected in parallel to the gasoline/ethanol line.

    Leave a comment:


  • CraziFuzzy
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    technocarb makes a few lpg converions... no idea if they are still epa certified, or if they've given up on that.

    Leave a comment:


  • frankw
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    these are the things us rookies need to know.the price factor.lpg vs cng.
    have to admit i still want lp as i can bury a 1000 gallon tank in the back yard and never worry about short term un availability of gasoline.
    cng sounds good right up until cap n tax passes. but for me i dont want the hassell of a unit to compress the ng.
    does anyone know if someone makes a fuel injection lpg conversion.
    if not i suppose a carburated motor will be required.

    Leave a comment:


  • BradCNGS
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    Check the DOE's Clean Cities Alternative Fuels Price Report for July 2009. On a BTU basis, CNG is the least expensive of the alternative fuels about $14.98 per million BTUs. LPG is the most expensive at $29.69 per million BTUs.

    Yeah LPG is available, but its more expensive than gasoline and twice as expensive as CNG.

    Leave a comment:


  • CraziFuzzy
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    eh, as said before, that's a regional decision. In SoCal, there are FAR more 24-hour CNG stations than LPG, and for the cost of LPG, you could just as easily run on gasoline... You also lose the home-fill option.

    Leave a comment:


  • larrycng
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    I would go to Vortox (vortox.com) for an air cleaner. They have metal housing and their own filters. They take backfires (if you have the problem) without breaking. Although you have to replace the element each time they will collect more and smaller dirt than a K&N.

    I don't really care for K & N


    Larrycng

    Leave a comment:


  • cowboy
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    check out impco for v8 chevy in my ton truck I used a 425 impco mixer with the top hat configuration just take off the air cleener and bolt the top hat on and clamp the mixer to it and I used a k and n air cleaner and you will also need a hp and a lp regulater mine is a 74 it works great

    Leave a comment:


  • frankw
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    Originally posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
    don't be so quick to blame the gov. It ins't that anyone in the government is really pushing AGAINST CNG, it's just that the current regulations are designed around the situation 10-15 years ago, where the only real demand for CNG was fleet use. Gasoline, at the time, was just too inexpensive for CNG to matter to private parties. Only fleets would get a decent return on the investment.

    I'm not sure about LPG, but since you DO have a new chevy, you CAN get it converted to CNG relatively easily, and LEGALLY. There are a few companies out there specializing in chevy's... (NaturalDrive and BayTech). One of the biggest drawbacks of the current regulations is the expiration of certifications, making it more difficult to convert a used vehicle than a new one.
    Sure the govt never saw the oil crunch coming.they think iran is friendly.cmon i dont believe its not all about the fact they can't control it yet.
    they will let us have propane conversions when they can properly road tax it.

    Leave a comment:


  • larrycng
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    IF you don't mind moving up in the world, you could get a Rousch propane F-150. I think they still have the one at Diehl Ford in Bellingham, Wa.

    Also at the risk of incuring even more rath from certain individual on this web site, I agree with going for LP since there is more availability.

    Once in a while I have to come out of the closet for LP

    Larrycng

    Leave a comment:


  • CraziFuzzy
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    don't be so quick to blame the gov. It ins't that anyone in the government is really pushing AGAINST CNG, it's just that the current regulations are designed around the situation 10-15 years ago, where the only real demand for CNG was fleet use. Gasoline, at the time, was just too inexpensive for CNG to matter to private parties. Only fleets would get a decent return on the investment.

    I'm not sure about LPG, but since you DO have a new chevy, you CAN get it converted to CNG relatively easily, and LEGALLY. There are a few companies out there specializing in chevy's... (NaturalDrive and BayTech). One of the biggest drawbacks of the current regulations is the expiration of certifications, making it more difficult to convert a used vehicle than a new one.

    Leave a comment:


  • frankw
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    currently live in florida.
    really looking to have a brand new chevy pickup converted to propane.
    its really hard to believe they dont come from the factory as an add on.
    i can only figure its because govt doesnt want us to have them.
    i could buy a pre emissions truck. but why don't i have a choice.
    i suppose i could get an impco kit pull the new fuel injection unit off and replace with carb.
    we have no emmissions certification ....yet.
    any help is appreciated

    Leave a comment:


  • larrycng
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    Using the law and it loop holes;

    What is the oldest vehicle that required to go through your states smog inspection? Use a vehicle that is not required to go through an emission inspection

    The Clean Air Act takes effect with the '68 model year. Before '68 there were no engine exhaust emission controls -- except for Calif which impemented them in '66.

    Impco is a good source for just about any engine.

    Larrycng

    Leave a comment:


  • frankw
    replied
    Re: LEGAL non-EPA conversions

    New here,
    had a 78 chevy that ran on lng. want to purchase a new truck that runs on the same.
    heres the problem.with fuel injection where do you go to get it done leagally or illegally? people want these done just to run into dead ends and govt regulations.Im sure the only reason you cant buy one is the fuel tax.the govt wants it and so do the states.
    look we all know the govt doesnt do what is in our best interests just theirs.
    but for the average person looking to convert. its a nightmare.
    i want to be politically correct and green.but more than that i want the feeling of independance of not needing gasoling when most likely someday there will be rations like the 70's.
    you all here have the knowlege to get this thing mainstream but no one wants to help get it going.
    the govt sure has drug its feet.the people want ngv only to run into dead ends. maybe if it started from the backyard mechanic the govt would see its tax loss and get it rolling.
    who can help? someone out there can help me. will you?
    [email protected] located in florida/ohio
    Last edited by frankw; 09-30-2009, 12:13 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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