EPA Certified Conversion Kits

[Highmarker]

EPA certified conversion kit list:

http://www.ngvamerica.org/pdfs/marketplace/MP.Analyses.NGVs-a.pdf

FAQ's on converting vehicles:
http://www.ngvamerica.org/pdfs/marketplace/MP.Analyses.NGVs-a.pdf

Jared.
Roy, Utah

4/10/08 Edited by admins to add the following alternative fuel vehicles, motors & conversion kits along with IRS tax credit info!

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=175456,00.html

[vaughnr007]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

It looks as though there are several conversion kits that can be used for private vehicles. So how does a person select the best system?
Has there been a study done that compares the different systems for cost, warrenty and maintainability?

[diesel-ongas]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

I am looking for any information on tanks,valves,fill fittings and regulators,If anyone could help? thankyou.

[a333f]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

Does anyone know where I could find a conversion kit for a 2002 Ford Explorer and a 2002 Mitsubishi Montero Sport?

[Timon]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

I was talking to CARB yesterday and found out that conversions do not qualify for HOV lane access. Only factory conversions done by a company who takes new cars from the manufacture, converts them and supports them for 70K miles can be sold and used in the HOV lanes.

So beware, you can't have someone convert your vehicle and get HOV stickers.

Also, if any changes are made to the current HOV lane program older AFV's could be booted. It looks like 7th and 8th generation Civics would be OK but older vehicles such as Civics and Fords might be at risk.

[John Mitton]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

A more recent listing of EPA/CARB certified kits is here: (scroll way down to the bottom to find the link just under the heading Vehicle Information)

http://www.ngvamerica.org/resources_tools/index.html

[k45]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

I checked for an EPA certified kit for a 2001 Dodge truck and it is not listed.

So I am confused. I know of people who run CNG on this model and they get their car inspected in Utah.

Is EPA certification required and if yes who enforces it?

It has been stated on this site that all kits must be EPA certified. Please give source of information. Please site Utah law.

[John Mitton]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

It is actually a federal law.

Section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act prohibits tampering via bypassing the emissions control system (also known as OnBoard Diagnostics or "OBD2"). The manufacturers, of course get their OBD2 computers certified for emissions compliance. Conversion kits by definition tamper with the emissions, so unless you can show the EPA that your kit is compliant with the already-certified OEM OBD2 computer, then the kit cannot be sold or installed legally in the United States.

As for enforcement, I realize that many states have no system in place to check. However, I just heard that Utah sent out a letter to all emissions certification facilities telling them to not pass any converted vehicle that does not have an EPA certification. If I can get my hands on a copy of the letter I will post it here.
{edited to add}
It is actually Utah County which sent out the letter, details here:

http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1268

[rtry9a]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

This discussion about EPA certification bothers me a bunch- The EPA and the rest of Congress don't know squat about cng- this EPA Certification BS is all a paper shuffle designed to regulate dirty gasoline and oil burners and make the California liberals happy. The rules have no application to cng.

If a car meets emission standards, which any cng car will if it runs well, who really cares, or is the wiser for that matter If we don't make unnecessary waves? There are no standards on water vapor or carbon dioxide emissions. The exception is the bifuelers, which imho, should be tested.

[neongreen]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

I agree wholeheartedly. Most of this bureacratic garbage has no purpose. If the vehicle is safe and runs clean, who cares how it became that way? There are a lot of useless federal laws. I would be willing to bet that Zero Emission Vehicles (hydrogen) are still required to have a catalytic converter just because that's what federal law mandates.

I do have a question though. What if your vehicle is not OBDII? Do you still have to jump through the EPA certification hoops?

[Oglethorp]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

Having discussed the EPA Certification process yesterday with a conversion manuracturer, I can offer the following:
Each EPA Certification is Year, Model, Engine specific. Meaning, that a certification for say a 2004 GMC Yukon w/5.3 litre vortec v8, would ONLY apply to that specific vehicle. A new certification would be required for another year, or model, even though they may share EXACTLY the same engine and electronics. [Isn't this great?]
Additionally, I was told that the certification process is slow, cumbersome and expensive. An investment of over $100,000 could be required for ONE Specific certification.
This may well explain while there are many manufacturers of conversion components and entire conversion supplies, but do their business almost ENTIRELY outside of the U.S.
NO reputable manufacturer, I was told, will sell products without EPA Certification in the U.S.
Further, EPA Certified kits are sold to "Installers", to be...[you guessed it], "Installed". This brings the price of the, [for example], above vehicle installation into the approximate $4,000 range.
Yes, Regulations and re-regulations are Strangling this technology in the U.S. Sorry to have bad news. Wish you luck.
The ONLY Conversion "Kit's", [I] have located for sale, are of foreign manufacture and are NOT EPA Certified.

[cngaz]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

Just wrap enough red tape around any good idea and you can squash it into the ground. It seems like the goal of our government these days.
There has to be a way to get the EPA to streamline the certification process.
I have not seen anyone have any luck with that yet, but i can always dream.
We get enough grass roots support, get our legislators ears and maybe we can get some change, congress is not real happy with the EPA right now.
Time for a new educational push & enlightenment for our representatives?
Get your pens out and make your visits, lets get busy!

[John Mitton]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

Welcome to CNGchat, Oglethorp! It is nice to have someone from Alaska onboard

I have found that the two monopolies (Baytech for GM platforms and BAF for Ford platforms) are blowing a lot of smoke to try and discourage others from competing with them. The reality is:

1. True, EPA certs cover engine families. But it is no so dire as it seems, for example...
GM engine 8GMXB03.6148 covers:

• CHEV EQUINOX
• PONTIAC TORRENT
• CADILLAC CTS
• CHEV MALIBU
• PONTIAC G6
• SATURN AURA
• CADILLAC SRX
• CADILLAC CTS

2. So long as the OEM does not make major modifications to the engine from year to year it is a very simple and inexpensive process to get an update from the EPA to carry-over the cert.

3. The actual out-of-pocket costs for a cert are closer to $50k than $100k. California (CARB) certification is on the higher end, EPA on the lower end. But getting CARB trumps EPA anyway so if you want all 50 states you simply suck it up and go for CARB. One good fleet order will cover the costs to get the cert.

4. A well-designed conversion kit should take a maximum of 2 man-days to install. Of course the installer needs to make some money too, but $4,000 is over-the-top in my opinion.

[lamarculmer]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

EPA certified conversion kit list

Jared.
Roy, Utah

Would you tell me what it would cost to convert a 1996 Plymouth Acclaim with a 3.0 V6 engine to a duel fuel (Gasoline & CNG) system?
ThankQ LaMar

[CNGolf?]

Re: EPA Certified Conversion Kits

I was talking to CARB yesterday and found out that conversions do not qualify for HOV lane access. (...)

Hi Timon!
I beg for pardon: what -for gods sake- is HOV???
Who or what is CARB?

(I come from Germany, the usances in Europe are a little bit different, of course. But I can't understand, what You are talking (writing) about...)

Maybe I will write a new posting about general questions... As soon as I am able to understand, what You are doing over there, Your neighbours might understand it as well ;-)

Bye! CNGolf²