Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

[Highmarker]

What happened to the thread entitled: clean energy sucks (the company)

I enjoyed reading up on that good debate. What happened to the thread? Did it get deleted? Why?

[Curtis]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

I was cleaning up some posts and moving some stuff last night. I hope I didn't inadvertantly zap it. It was a great thread but kept getting off topic (gas station price reports about CE stations).

Well, there's one good reason to keep ON TOPIC in a thread. Sorry gang.

[cngacrossusa]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

Curtis and John - - of note to all cng community:

Is this censorship ??

If my comments and specific facts about Clean Energy monopoly practices (mandated $100 lifetime deposit that is non-interest bearing ; overcharged public cng pump prices, toll phone number for pump info, etc.) are subject to deletion, what other topics will be deleted if they get heated, or expose truths about a company preying on the cng community?

I seriously doubt that many cng users in CA even know that you can't get cng in NY with your CA Clean Energy fuel card - - - same is true in CO - - as CE fuel card in both states are state specific, thus NOT good anywhere else!! Not sure the full extent of Clean Energy monopoly practices as it is theoretically possible that someone with bi-fuel cng vehicle from CA wanted to drive cross country through CO on way to NY, that person would have to get 3 different CE fuel cards and the CO and NY would have their own $100 deposit each!!! Further, if their initial CE fuel card in CA required a $100 deposit, then they would be up to $300 deposit all to same company - - CE!!!

Can someone in CA let me know, does CE require a $100 deposit for past or current CE fuel cards issued in CA?? Also, has anyone tried to get a CE fuel card for multiple states (ie CA and CO, or CO and NY, or TX and CO, or some other combination)??

Also, the fact that Clean Energy gives cng customers the run around to call in for information (further, on TOLL number to specific person in Seal Beach, CA !!) whether a cng pump is open, and the current price, really perturbs me given the fact that CE is national stock market company!!

Please give us an update . . . thanks,

cngacrossusa
Go CNG !! Cleanest fuel on the planet (except for solar and wind).

[c2sox]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

I was cleaning up some posts and moving some stuff last night. I hope I didn't inadvertantly zap it. It was a great thread but kept getting off topic (gas station price reports about CE stations).

Well, there's one good reason to keep ON TOPIC in a thread. Sorry gang.

No way to retrieve it Curtis? I thought it was quite informative.

[John Mitton]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

Bummer, that was a very good thread.

It probably got moved to another forum, anyone see it?
If it was accidentally deleted, we could also restore the database from the point of deletion -- but then all the other subsequent posts would not be available.

Wost-case scenario we can just start up another thread, there will no doubt be lots of input again

[John Mitton]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

What would you folks think of a separate forum for discussions regarding Clean Energy Fuels Corp? I can imagine there would be lots of individual topics to discuss there, such as obtaining their fueling cards, pricing in various markets, initiatives they have in various fleets, etc.?

Also, (for my fellow moderators) unlike thread, where a misstep in a pull-down menu can wreak havoc, it is really tough to accidentally delete an entire forum

[CNG-UNIT]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

Even I was enjoying my hand to hand combat with cngacrossusa in that thread. We make a good nemisis combat team. We can always start a new one I suppose.

I still find it amazing cngacrossusa can be such a supporter of the technology, and hate a cng company so much. The industry is so young and you speak about it like its as common as gasoline. Its not even close. The industry needs all the help it can get, and your viscious attacks on clean energy turn the industry in the wrong direction. You make it sound like they kidnapped your puppy or something. The best tactic right now in the US is to support every single person who has anything to do with the market, the more competitors the better.

And I also spoke to their CO rep here at length about the $100 deposit and the stations in NY. He said those sites, much like our sites here in CO (used to be natural fuels, CE bought natural fuels aroudn 2003) they were aquired (in NY from keyspan) not built by the company. They are in process of transitioning all the old sites everywhere in the US to take visa and masteracard, which will eliminate the fueling cards and the deposit. He said every new site the company builds willl be credit card - debit card compatible to promote public access and eliminate the need for fuel cards. I know this is true because they just did to our Denver international public site, I used my debit card there yesterday for the first time! He said it will take some time to get allt the other sites switched over because they have to replace the card readers.

Maybe you could try doing some research about the "why" instead of puking all over them every chance you get. Where will you focus your hatred once the deposit goes away and all the sites take credit cards?

[CNG-UNIT]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

I'm obviously open to a forum for this.

that way cngacrossusa and I can duke it out in peace, knowing our violent history will not be deleted.

[Curtis]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

I would think that it got moved elsewhere. I assure all you doubters that whatever I did (assuming I did it) was totally accidental. I was moving the fueling stuff posted by Johnny to the fueling thread and wasn't aware of anything amiss. I say it's Johnny's fault! Anyway, it's probably just lurking in one of the other threads.

Everyone keep your eye's open for our (highly valued) missing thread. It was a thread, right John. That wasn't a forum. It was in the main forum. I should leave the housekeeping to those who don't have butter fingers.

[CNG-UNIT]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

Its all good, im sure it was an honest mistake. No worries.

We can just get a new one rolling. I did like the idea of the forum for this though. I would like to invite the CO rep from CE I know (or someone from corporate) to come on so we could ask questions and open a dialogue. That would be cool.

[echamberlain]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

It looks like the thread is gone, unless it was a soft delete or moved to a forum where Registered Users don't have permission to view it. The thread id was 963, and threads generally don't change ids, even if they are moved to another forum.

Doing a DB restore is a bit drastic.

The thread is still available via Google's cache, Google search for "clean energy" sucks and click the Cached link to view the thread.

An enterprising individual could use that to rebuild the thread, if an administrator can't view or recover the old thread.

[cngacrossusa]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

Hello all . . yes even CNG-UNIT,

Given the massive dominance that Clean Energy has over individual cng users - - not to mention it's fleet customers (I'll refer to it as MONOPOLY, while cng-unit refers to it as "young company" . . Come On!!), the FORUM idea on www.cngchat.com specifically for Clean Energy sounds perfect!!

[Curtis and John] Please save this thread as well as prior thread, if at all possible.

I'm actually a reasonable person. I just won't get "taken to the cleaners" without putting up a serious pitbull fight!!

P.S. I personally was involved with switching the merchant number and equipment for credit card sales of $100 million company that did approx $8 million annually by credit card. We had about 60 point of sale locations/machines that I personally ensured would process VISA/MC/Discover/AmEx properly before going live. This whole process took about 3 months and I was project manager and 90% of labor, and even worked with mainframe computer programmers to ensure all data interfaced. If I can do it, surely Clean Energy can do it for 15 Colorado locations, 11 locations in New York, 1 California location (Palm Springs) and 1 Texas location (downtown Dallas) that ONLY take the monopoly state-specific CE fuel card!! See for yourself at CE website:

http://www.cleanenergyfuels.com/stations/stations.html

Nationwide, only a credit card (VISA/MC/Discover) should be needed to purchase public cng!!

[Curtis]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

I have to agree with you on that point. For cng to be accepted widely as a transportation fuel, payment has to be standardized to accept common forms of payment, such as Visa/MC.

Traveling within a state, much less interstate, is a challenge due to the various cards that sometimes come into play. It is much better than it was only a few years ago, and I'm sure it will continue to get better.

I'm not sure that appointing CE as the keeper of the gate, bridge and road itself is the right way to get there since they can't seem to clear this simple hurdle themselves.

cng-unit, what does your CE connection have to say about their credit card practices?

[CNG-UNIT]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

I'm with you guys on this, there has to be a simple standardized system if we are ever going to see real growth. And taking credit cards is a simple as it gets.

The explanation was basically that they do and have taken a wide variety of cards including credit cards, wright express, voyager (fleet cards), etc. He explained that all new stations are standardized in design and in card reader capabilites for Visa, MC, Voyager and CE cards (they used the CE cards primarily for fleets who have volume discounts or fixed prices). Many of the stations in CE network were aquired from utiilities or other smaller CNG companies and they use a specific type of software. (im getting out of my understanding zone at this point but I shall keep going) all the new stations use a software called multiforce, but the stations that dont use that software-card reader system have to be ripped out and replaced with mulitifoce card readers. Basically it is a hardware AND software change at older stations like the ones in NY that do not currently take CCs. No idea how much something like that costs. Here in CO we have an older system called Tech21 (common in the fleet industry) and all the CE CO sites still use this, CE is just now getting around to replacing them with multiforce visa MC capable systems. The Denver airport site was the first site they replaced and as I mentioned I used my MC there for the first time yesterday. Good stuff.

Essentiallly their answer was: we are working on it, but its going to take a while, and everything moving foward will be credit card compatible and replacing everything backward will probably take a few years.

[cngacrossusa]

Re: Where did the "clean energy sucks (the company)" go?

Using this Clean Energy logic, a multi-state vacation would be very tough!!

First, I'd have to pre-plan each McDollarsards stop I might make, apply for McRonaldDollar card and send in $100 deposit a couple weeks in advance PER STATE (for NY and CO anyway) for a $12 to $15 transaction ; then at end of vacation I'd need to write letter to get my $100 back since I likely won't be going on vacation to that same McDollarsards in that state. All this required by McDollarsards though the $12 to $15 charge itself was put on my own credit card. Then if my cousin LuLu decided to get married and I went back to same McDollarsards next year, I couldn't eat there unless I paid $25 re-McRonaldDollarization card charge and put up $100 deposit again couple weeks ahead of time!!

When I asked the Mr. McBurglarards (ie Manager of McDollarsards) why all this was necessary, he said they couldn't update the cash registers for YEARS because SO MANY new McDollarards were being put up, or Burgard Kingsley franchises were undergoing hostile takeovers!!

Wow, all that to get a hamburger!!