CBG (compressed bio gas) - - how to promote??

[cngacrossusa]

Curtis, John, & entire cng community,

I've been highly interested in CBG (compressed bio gas) after reading of several successful implementations of capturing methane that is cleaned up and compressed for cng. Examples are: Landfill in Ohio ; Cattle Stockyard in Texas ; Dairy Farm on Dirty Jobs (TV show) ; and Wastewater Treatment Plant in Sweden (any such in USA)??

Any experts out there we could harness for nationwide push for CBG that would result in getting more public cng pumps (ie WITHOUT any involvement by Clean Energy)?? Such an arrangement would be a win-win-win as:
1) municipality or city would be getting new revenue source,
2) environment would be helped by capturing the bio gas, AND
3) new public cng pump would be available for general cng users, trash trucks, city buses, etc.

Any contacts at corporate Honda that could be used?? Any contacts in large cities like LA?? Anyone in Utah??

I'd love to see massive targeted list for CBG, that systematically got implemented in such a way that major metro areas where there currently are no public cng pumps would get one!! Same would hold for critical refueling points on major highways that need a public cng pump (ie try to get public cng every 150 miles). Maybe could start at all Honda dealerships in cities over 100,000 population??

Any ideas?? I'd sure send emails, cover the postage to mail educational cng literature, or make phone calls.

Go CNG !! Cleanest fuel on the planet (except for wind and solar).

[echamberlain]

Re: CBG (compressed bio gas) - - how to promote??

I've been highly interested in CBG (compressed bio gas) after reading of several successful implementations of capturing methane that is cleaned up and compressed for cng. Examples are: Landfill in Ohio ; Cattle Stockyard in Texas ; Dairy Farm on Dirty Jobs (TV show) ; and Wastewater Treatment Plant in Sweden (any such in USA)??

There are many waste water treatment plans in the US with cogeneration facilities. EBMUD is one example in the San Francisco Bay Area. To find more do a google search for "waste treatment cogeneration".

[cngaz]

Re: CBG (compressed bio gas) - - how to promote??

The EPA has a Landfill Outreach Program that has been good at publicizing opportunities for generating power from landfill gas that could be extended to vehicle fueling also.
Question is sponsors and money??

[old man]

Re: CBG (compressed bio gas) - - how to promote??

First California Cow Biomethane Project Goes Commercial
This week, PG&E and BioEnergy Solutions announced that their biogas-to-pipeline injection project in Fresno County has begun production of renewable natural gas derived from animal waste. It is the first project in California that will deliver pipeline-quality, renewable natural gas to a utility. Under a long-term contract approved by the California Public Utilities Commission, BioEnergy Solutions will deliver up to three billion cubic feet of renewable natural gas a year to PG&E.

The BioEnergy Solutions system reduces emissions of methane by 70 percent on a 5,000-cow dairy. Vintage Dairy, the site of BioEnergy Solution’s first project, is located near the town of Riverdale in western Fresno County, California. Manure from the dairy’s 5,000 milk-producing cows and calves is flushed into a covered lagoon – equal in size to the area of nearly five football fields and over three stories deep – that traps the methane gas produced as the manure decomposes. The methane is upgraded, or “scrubbed,” to remove corrosive materials to meet PG&E’s environmental standards and then delivered to PG&E through the utility’s pipeline. Initially, the biomethane will be used by PG&E for power generation to help meet its California Renewable portfolio standard. As the volume of biomethane available in California grows, however, a 5-10 percent biomethane blend could make an increasing number of California’s NGVs renewable natural gas vehicles. For more information, contact PG&E at 415/973-5930 or BioEnergy Solutions’ Steve Duchesne at 310/364-5254

[freedml]

Re: CBG (compressed bio gas) - - how to promote??

Biomethane producers mostly sell or use the electricity they generate. As you can see, their second choice is to sell it in bulk to a utility. I doubt they will bother with selling it to retail users like us.

[Curtis]

Re: CBG (compressed bio gas) - - how to promote??

I like the CBG angle too. I think the technology is new enough that it's still being developed as an industry. I smile every time I read about a new project coming on line... and frown when I read it's in another country...

It is the carbon neutral, renewable future of cng. Michael is right though, virtually every one of these facilities are using the gas on site, or the plant built at the dump is running the trash trucks, rather than the public, and that's fine with me. Converting one trash truck to cng is the equivalent of taking 384 gasoline burning cars off the road.

cngacrossusa tends to see the public sectors conversion to cng as the be-all and end-all solution, however we (the public sector) are really insignificant at this phase of the game, where environmental impacts are measured. Most grant money that's out there is geared to where it will do the most good... heavy equipment and trucks.

We should be thanking whoever we pray to for every crumb we get in the way of incentives to wards afv's for public consumption. Think of it as a knee-jerk response to the publics cry for environmental change. It's a gesture, not a cure... or even a band-aid. CNG cars and trucks in the publics hands are so few, relative to what it would take to make a real impact environmentally, that they are insignificant.

It amazes me that they give us any money at all considering that the funds could make a much bigger impact spent elsewhere. Spend 1.8 million and convert OTR Semi Trucks to cng, or lng, instead of giving it to the public to offset the purchase of 270 GX's and however many electric cars, trucks and motorcycles they did, and the money would have done more environmental good.

I know some of you are ready to string me up for such sacrilege, but the point I'm making is that CBG is a long, long way out and even further from making it to your cars tank. You have a better chance of burning a minute portion of what's produced in your stove than your car, if some of the legislation that's out there passes.

Should they legislate that all new construction of dumps, dairy farms, treatment plants, etc. require capture and processing of bio-gas for consumption? You bet. Will they, hell no. Sweden will do it before the US. Remember, we're Americans, the home of the fat and wasteful. Fortunately, there is a grass roots movement toward a renewable, sustainable future, and we are it. Today cng, tomorrow CBG.

Sorry, cngacrossusa, but you have as much chance of Honda getting involved with matters outside making great, clean, long lasting cars, as you do of turning Bush's backside into a CBG plant.

[CNG-UNIT]

Re: CBG (compressed bio gas) - - how to promote??

Curtis is right on with his comments on Honda, they will never get into this.

I was at WasteExpo in 2006 (Trash industry conference) and the landfill gas was getting a lot of attention. They were bascially indicating that any landfill that gets over 3,000 tons of trash a day (most do) is a decent target for a landfill gas project. The difficulty is clearly in the cleaning process to get the methane out of the muck. The capital costs were $6M + to install the cleaning systems and this does not take into account the collection system. New landfills all have the biogas collection in them, but many older ones need to be retrofit, essentiallly you drill into the trash and put pipes in to suck up the gas.

One long term drawback landfills have is that they are not forever. The methane gas is not constant from day to day and production eventually platueas after the landfill is capped (40 -60 years) and then drops significantly. So you have to plan for this.

The fuel is typically cleaned and then injected into the pipeline, this seems to be the most economic use of the fuel. It boulsters the US supply of gas and the more we get in there from renewable sources, the better for the vehilce market as a whole. They are linked at the highest level. Of course, the pipeline has to be close enough to the landfill to make it economic. It can also have a CNG station off that line which fuels vehicles (typically trash trucks) but I doubt there will every be consumer stations at landfills. Its more a top down approach. If get to the point where we know 10-20% of the fuel in the pipes is from renewable sources, we can all claim our NGVs are 10-20% fueled by a renewable. There is also a company making LNG at landfill, claiming the cryogenic process helps clean the fuel at a lower cost. Then you can ship the LNG off to be used in buses or trucks.

Dairy farms also seem like a great application (cool article on dairy biogas: http://www.agweb.com/dairytoday/Article.aspx?id=140686) and Wastewater is a huge source. I know europe has said they expect to eliminate their natural gas imports from russia by 2020 by using biogas injected into the pipelines. Iceland has zero fossil fuel natural gas but a large NGV bus fleet, all powered by biomethane from wastewater treatment.

Clean Energy has spoken at length about this at investor conferences, they see the NGV industry investing heavily in biogas and biomethane because expands the industry into the renewable sector and weeds everyone off fossil fuel natural gas. They mentioned a project they were looking at in Canada where they would invest $3 Million or so with partners and governement to build a gas cleanup plant. The plant would both inject biomethane into the pipeline and feed into a CNG station for a 100 unit trash truck fleet. At the station the blend of bio-methane to pipeline gas could was available to comabt the constantly changing levels of fuel produced by the landfill itself.

The other projects they are looking at is LNG produced at dairy farms, the farm consortiums often have huge Class 8 tractor trailer fleets which can then use the LNG as their fuel source. CE was looking to partner with them to help clean their fuel and then build LNG fueling stations for them at a few strategic locations.

Cool stuff, sounds like the next generation of the NGV industry. CE called it RCNG Renewable Compressed Natural Gas.

[Curtis]

Re: CBG (compressed bio gas) - - how to promote??

Brilliant idea! I'm currently working on a new project that will eliminate the need for auxilliary tanks for extended range driving. The simple addition of rectal refueling tubes in cng cars will both extend the range, make you carbon neutral and satisfy cngacrossusa's devotion to biogas.

Range may be determined by the amount of beans in your diet though. For an auxilliary biogas supply you may simply tow a small 4x8 trailer with the bovine of your choosing... in case lunch fails you.

Seriously though, the real future of cng may lie in the hands of adsorbtion technology. If a 500 psi system can be developed that can hold 20% more than current tanks of the same size, we can get away from the tremendously expensive infrastructure that we rely on now.

That would mean no more tanks in the trunk, cheap refueling infrastructure and greater public acceptance of cng technology. It would bring down the cost of the cars as well since the most expensive part of a conversion is the tank.

I am very excited by the potential of this technology and hope it becomes mainstream in the near future. I truley believe it's the future of cng.