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  • CNG Data Sources

    I am looking for a couple things for my research related to CNG and was hoping someone may be able to point me in the right direction.

    1) Greenhouse gas emissions: I regularly hear CNG emits about 20% - 30% less carbon dioxide than gasoline-powered vehicles. Does anyone know where I might be able to find this info in a pound per gge number. EPA produces the number for gasoline at about 19 pounds per gallon. Obviously I can deduce that its 20-30% less for CNG but an actual, reputable source citation is needed. Any thoughts or know where this might be hiding on EPA's website?

    2) Current national average CNG prices: EIA reports a weekly national gasoline price, but I am having a harder time finding something for CNG. Clean Cities does a monthly report on average prices which includes CNG but it only comes out once a month and there is about a 3 month lag. Any thoughts on where I can get some more recent CNG average price info?

    Thank you!
    Castlen Kennedy
    www dot greenamericanroadtrip dot com

  • #2
    Re: CNG Data Sources

    CO2 and CO are normal byproducts of combustion- the relationship between the two is determined by the efficiency of the engine. The whole CO2 greenhouse gas bs is badly misrepresented... water vapor and ch4 (methane) are much more common and bigger contributors to atmospheric warming than co2. By far, the biggest source of co2 are the oceans, not man. The climate change bs is driven by politics and money (wealth redistribution), not by anything associated with the environment. There might be a little less release of unburned hydrocarbons with cng, because the overall makeup of methane is less complex than gasoline or diesel mixtures. The fuel value of cng is abt 10% less than gasoline on a btu basis.

    cng prices are highly affected by location and local politics and the level of distribution monopolies. Utah has pump prices at $.93/gge, most states are significantly higher, especially where Clean Energy has gained control of local markets, eg, California, and Arizona. The actual cng prices are probably best compared with utility pricing at the end of pipe. Try www.cngprices.com for current pump pricing across the country.
    Last edited by rtry9a; 04-09-2010, 02:45 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: CNG Data Sources

      I would think that NGVA would probably have your GHG numbers. They've been actively supporting NGV's through the CEC and EPA legal processes for some time. If anyone has the info it would be them. Contact Richard Kolodziej, [email protected].

      I would also contact Denise and share the info about your trip and see if they can give you some exposure, if not support of some type. I have included her information below. Best of luck.
      Denise McCourt, Director of Communications, 202-824-7365 or [email protected]

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      • #4
        Re: CNG Data Sources

        Originally posted by iheartgas View Post
        www dot greenamericanroadtrip dot com
        It's okay to hyperlink a website. I'd click on it just to see what it is, but why bother when you forced to edit the URL into a browser.


        ?Innovation is driven by having access to things.? -- Gleb Budman, CEO of backblaze.com

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        • #5
          Re: CNG Data Sources

          jblue, all,
          We restrict the ability of new members to include URL links for a few days and a few posts. This rule in the software has almost completely eliminated forum spam. iheartgas now has full permissions

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          • #6
            Re: CNG Data Sources

            Originally posted by John Mitton View Post
            We restrict the ability of new members to include URL links for a few days and a few posts.
            roger. Every little bit helps.


            ?Innovation is driven by having access to things.? -- Gleb Budman, CEO of backblaze.com

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            • #7
              Re: CNG Data Sources

              Originally posted by iheartgas View Post
              1) Greenhouse gas emissions: I regularly hear CNG emits about 20% - 30% less carbon dioxide than gasoline-powered vehicles. Does anyone know where I might be able to find this info in a pound per gge number. EPA produces the number for gasoline at about 19 pounds per gallon. Obviously I can deduce that its 20-30% less for CNG but an actual, reputable source citation is needed. Any thoughts or know where this might be hiding on EPA's website?
              Castlen,

              Here is an explanation that I think is a pretty good one how they come up with 19 pounds. However, I also agree with rtry9a regarding the global warming hoax. I did take my bi-fuel car into an inspection station here in Houston and paid them to test the emissions out of the tailpipe when on gasoline and on NG. The CO2 emissions were 25% less on NG. All of the other emissions were identical. BTW, trees love CO2.

              From http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/co2.shtml

              It seems impossible that a gallon of gasoline, which weighs about 6.3 pounds, could produce 20 pounds of carbon dioxide (CO2) when burned. However, most of the weight of the CO2 doesn't come from the gasoline itself, but the oxygen in the air.

              When gasoline burns, the carbon and hydrogen separate. The hydrogen combines with oxygen to form water (H2O), and carbon combines with oxygen to form carbon dioxide (CO2).

              A carbon atom has a weight of 12, and each oxygen atom has a weight of 16, giving each single molecule of CO2 an atomic weight of 44 (12 from carbon and 32 from oxygen).

              Therefore, to calculate the amount of CO2 produced from a gallon of gasoline, the weight of the carbon in the gasoline is multiplied by 44/12 or 3.7.

              Since gasoline is about 87% carbon and 13% hydrogen by weight, the carbon in a gallon of gasoline weighs 5.5 pounds (6.3 lbs. x .87).

              We can then multiply the weight of the carbon (5.5 pounds) by 3.7, which equals 20 pounds of CO2!
              Bob Baldwin
              2009 Ford Focus Bi-Fuel
              2000 Ford F-150 Bi-Fuel

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              • #8
                Re: CNG Data Sources

                Originally posted by BobBaldwin View Post
                We can then multiply the weight of the carbon (5.5 pounds) by 3.7, which equals 20 pounds of CO2!
                Well done Holmes!

                It really puts things into perspective if you can visualize a 5.5 pound square block of black carbon sitting in your gas can.


                ?Innovation is driven by having access to things.? -- Gleb Budman, CEO of backblaze.com

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                • #9
                  Re: CNG Data Sources

                  Some other interesting facts:

                  * We each breath out 575 pounds of carbon each year
                  * A single tree thrives on 48 pounds of carbon each year in order produce enough oxygen to two of us to breath
                  * A typical 12-ounce can of soda contains up to six grams (.013 pounds) of carbon dioxide (CO2) gas
                  Bob Baldwin
                  2009 Ford Focus Bi-Fuel
                  2000 Ford F-150 Bi-Fuel

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                  • #10
                    Re: CNG Data Sources

                    GHG emission factors are not easy to obtain. It is also not entirely clear what you want. The emissions are different for each type of vehicle and each natural gas well. Do you want to know the figure for your car, using your local gas?
                    If you do a poor conversion on a gasoline powered car and compare GHG emissions with the same car running on gasoline you won't find much improvement. If you have a modern CNG turbo charged engine (not for sale in the US), you'll get closer to 30% efficiency gain.
                    The CO2 that is produced depends on how much carbon was in the NG in the first place. Also transport losses for methane (a strong greenhouse gas) can be significant. I am only familiar with the local situation here in the Netherlands (Europe), but most of the European natural gas is transported through old pipelines from Siberia, so losses are relatively high. For Dutch natural gas the situation is better, but there is a difference between our main gas source (Slochteren) and other fields. Some North Sea wells contain dangerously high amounts of CO2 (even before combustion).

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