Can CNG veichles use LPG

[berserkus]

Hi,

I am looking at few particular veichles and wondering weather they could run either on CNG or on LPG.
The models are:
Opel astra 2005 CNG
Opel Zafira 2003 CNG
Volvo V70 Bi-fuel

Since they can run on CNG or on petroleum. Would there be any difference if LPG is used? What are main diferences?

[Curtis]

Re: Can CNG veichles use LPG

That approximates asking if a gasoline car can run on deisel. Two different fuels with different equipment requirements. I'll let the more technical types break it down for you. Suffice it to say, you'd have to put a complete LPG system in the car to run both fuels in a cng vehicle. Multiple fuel vehicles are out there and exist already, but where would you put another tank in the cars you mention?

[cngmike]

Re: Can CNG veichles use LPG

There is a guy out of Co. that has built vehicles that run on 4 types of fuel. some better than others.

[larrycng]

Re: Can CNG veichles use LPG

It can be done, but as Curtis said, you would have probably use a whole system. System pressure, fuel lines, regulators, vaporizors are all different between Lp and CNG. The gaseous fuel injectors should be compatable between Lp and CNG (flow rate being the consideration) but you would have to play with system pressures. Remember fuel injection, be it gasoline or gaseous fuel, is a function of time and pressure

It has been done, Lp and CNG through the same injectors. You would have to "lie" to some of the sensors usually fuel rail pressure to allow the system's fuel trim abilities to function.

As you probably know, there are some European companies that make both Lp and CNG systems, you would have to check with them as to compatability of low pressure components with both fuels.

Have fun

Larrycng

[CNGfamily]

Re: Can CNG veichles use LPG

[QUOTE=berserkus;32530]...
Volvo V70 Bi-fuel...QUOTE]

At least on paper this looked like a very nice bifuel vehicle. No, it won't run more than one alt fuel... I was looking into gasoline and CNG, but I recall they also had a different gasoline and LPG version, but nothing LNG.

I looked into geting one several years ago... I wasn't able to find anyone that could get one imported for me (back in the day, I knew people that would go to Europe, buy a new vehicle, drive it for the duration of an extended vacation, and somehow get it imported to the US as a used vehicle; I think that can still be done, but only with vehicles that are retailed in the US... not the case with European CNG and bifuel vehicles)

[Curtis]

Re: Can CNG veichles use LPG

There are rumore that Fiat may import some of their cng vehicles now that they own Chrysler. Probably would sell under the Chrysler brand, but would be several years away at best.

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: Can CNG veichles use LPG

I think they intend on selling the 500 still badged as a fiat... (would be hard to call it the Chrysler 500 anyway.. that would seem to imply it'd be a 'bigger cousin' to the 300).... They will probably change the '500' name to something 'cutsie' anyways...

Either way, their current plans are to bring in A Mexican made Fiat 500 in 2011, and an American made Alfa Romeo mid-size sometime in 2012...

[Gerben]

Re: Can CNG veichles use LPG

I've heared of volvo V70's that have been converted from CNG to LPG. The opposite should be possible too. You will at least need to replace the entire fuel system and get the vehicle approved. Like Larry said: it might take you some time to figure out which parts are compatible and which are not. The V70 might be a special case since it was designed to be built in both LPG and CNG bifuel versions.

[joemccleery]

Re: Can CNG veichles use LPG

Well CNGfamily, what I've learned in the past few days but haven't been able to verify yet is that since I too intend to run my 18wheeler on LNG, its just the storage of liquid in a cryogenic tank and since when stored this way its at a 600:1 ratio. You obviously can't burn it at that rate so I'll release it from the tank, so it'll go from LNG to CNG and then mix with (diesel in my case and) the air/fuel in or before the intake so LNG shouldn't behave any differently than CNG, it'll just be more expensive to store. And driving long distances between fill-ups means I need to store it this way.

[larrycng]

Re: Can CNG veichles use LPG

You can check out an LNG system and get the vaporizer and regulator they use. It will then vaporize at the necessary rate for your needs just like an LNG engine. Your big problem will be vapor being released via boil-off when the vehicle is not being used. Make sure the LNG tank is almost empty when you let truck set for a couple of days -- what is in the tank will go up in vapor and add to the amount of green house gases in the atmosphere. There is probably more that I have and can't remember.

Larrycng
from Weilerbach Germany.

P.S. Will try and check out CNG in Germany and Switzerland

[cripple_rooster]

Re: Can CNG veichles use LPG

I have already seen some people doing workarounds to run home LPG bottles into CNG-powered vehicles. Since the CNG conversion kits used in these vehicles were 2nd-gen ones, that uses emulators to fool the engine's ECU there were not too much problems. Some people who live far from the Bolivia-Brazil pipeline had already fitted some cars with CNG setups but transfer the LPG content from home bottles to the CNG tanks (this is already illegal in Brazil since LPG is not allowed for road use but I still see it when I go to the countryside).