How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

[The Big Bad]

I'm thinking of getting a Civic GX but am concerned about how long it takes to refuel the car. The editors at Edmunds.com have been running a long term test of a GX and claim that it takes ~20 minutes to refuel (these are commercial stations in Southern California). Does it really take that long? That would really eat into any time I would save on a commute since I would probably have to refuel every two days or so (round trip commute would be 100 miles a day).

[kierandill]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

I'm thinking of getting a Civic GX but am concerned about how long it takes to refuel the car. The editors at Edmunds.com have been running a long term test of a GX and claim that it takes ~20 minutes to refuel (these are commercial stations in Southern California). Does it really take that long? That would really eat into any time I would save on a commute since I would probably have to refuel every two days or so (round trip commute would be 100 miles a day).

Do they include waiting in line for 15 minutes? Man, I dunno - the pump I go to is routinely at 4000+ PSI. Sometimes it doesn't actually shut off - it gets nearly full and then creeps along... 4.324...4.325, etc. If they are silly enough to sit there for 15 more minutes, waiting for it to "get done", they deserve to have their time wasted. I won't say the same for anyone unfortunate enough to be waiting in line behind them.
After all, you cannot get a full fill at a fast filling station like these under any circumstances, so there is no point waiting for the last couple tenths to go in, since you will end up 1/2 gallon shy of full anyway. I usually am getting about 1/2 tank when I stop, and it takes no longer than getting 6-8 gallons of gasoline at a filling station.

[The Big Bad]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

Here's the link to the blog entry from Edmunds. It very well may have been that the writer was trying to get the tank all the way full.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2009/07/2009-honda-civic-gx-an-afternoon-at-the-pump.html

[kierandill]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

Yeah - that article and most the comments is a clueless-fest.
Gasoline goes in at a fixed speed and shuts off when it is full.
CNG goes in really fast (and noisily) at first, because there is a big difference between the pressure in the storage tanks and the pressure in your car. Full is 3600 PSI, of course, and obviously if the station is reading less than that, you will never get full. But even if it is just above 3600, it is going to get progressively slower as it get close to full.
Another thing to consider is that compressing the gas heats it, and as the gas sits in your tank while you sit in a lawn chair getting your picture taken, the gas is cooling off, which lowers the pressure in your tank, making the pump continue to run, trying to get it up to 3600.
Which, of course, it does - it shuts off at 3600 psi, whether your fuel gauge is reporting that as 100% or not.
As an aside, the commenter that said how past he could fill a 20# propane tank is off base, too - propane is a liquid that gets pumped just like gasoline.

The only thing I would look at, and maybe Curtis can chime in here, is that I thought they were toying with doubling the AFV tax credit, which would be worth waiting for if they do.

[Curtis]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

The only way I could see it ever taking 20 minutes is at a station where you'd have to wait behind a city bus, or some comperable vehicle. Every station I've ever used has been comperable to filling a gasoline vehicle, 2-3 minutes, even accounting for the slowdown at the end of the filling cycle. Edmunds is back East and I have no idea if there could be a problem with the station they are regularly using.

In SoCal you should be fine if you avoid the lines of bus, trash truck and street sweepers that use some locations.

[Curtis]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

By the way, thanks for adding the link to the article. What follows is the comment I left on the site. Hopefully the members of this site will add their own.

I've driven a GX for years and never run into this situation. It sounds like a problem with the dispencer. It never takes me over 2-3 minutes to top off and I fill from 1/4 tank (remaining) normally.
It's unfortunate that this happened to you and that you have the public audience to cast a negative image on the GX, when in fact, the poor infrastructure situation in your neck of the woods is the true problem.
The Phill refueling appliance will be available to the public early next year through the legendary alt fuels company Impco. Many home refuelers opt for the larger VRA (vehicle refueling appliance), the FMQ2-36, a one gallon per hour (equivelent) slow fill dispencer from the same company that brought you the Phill.
Since those units fill your car while you're sleeping, their speed isn't much of an issue. In fact, it's a non issue.
Do thise of us that adopt cng vehicles have to take a few extra steps where fueling is concerned, yes we do. We have to think about our range, how many "chicklets" are left on the gas guage and where the next pump is located, but it's a small price to pay for driving the cleanest ICE engine in the world. Sometimes doing what's right isn't the same as doing what's merely simple.
Putting $150 wort of gasoline in your SUV is far more abhorent to me than 24 minutes at a problem station. Perhaps your next article could be on why the people that maintain that station don't get their equipment working right, rather than make it about the having to suffer to drive a Civic GX.
I would hope that you use your position of influence to promote the solutions to what is wrong with this oil addicted nation, rather to turn a minor inconvenience into a story to steer people away from this technology.
As cute as the story was, I think you could have found something more positive and relative than this unfortunate waste of time that came to you curtesy of the station operator.
If you want to talk to 6,400 people that own cng vehicles, stop by www.cngchat.com and get the facts from people that live the alt fuels lifestyle.
Curtis

[jetboatjohnny]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

My local station takes less than 2 minutes to fill about 4-5 GGE and does not cycle like the CE dispensers, which take a bit longer to fill. My station does cycle at the very end, a few short bursts.

[Larryect]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

The reality is, it only takes a few minutes. I So. Cal. most of the stations work well most of the time.

[GxRox]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

I've owned a GX for about a year and can assure you that a fill-up takes only a few minutes. It's odd the writer of the Edmunds article just happened to have a folding chair, magazine and photographer with him to capture the events that he repeatedly insists were "not staged." Either the guy had a deadline to get an article written and wasn't going to let reality interfere with a good story, or perhaps he's just a little "slower" than your average CNG owner. I'm really curious how long it took him to figure out how to set up his folding chair. I guess that will be his next story.

[The Big Bad]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

Thanks for your responses. Makes me feel much better about the GX. I really was concerned about having to take 20 minutes to fill it every two or three days.

Edmunds is back East

I believe these particular writers are in So Cal based on their other entries. They've actually posted quite a few entries on the GX. Here's the top page of their GX-related posts for anyone interested.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/Vehicles/2007HondaCivicGX/

[johnny 99]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

I also posted a reply on the Edmunds site. I have always liked Edmunds, but that posting is a big pile of poo.

I have learned at the San Jose International airport to never refuel at the same time a bus is refueling. I did that once and it took forever, but I didn't rip natural gas cars because I was stupid.

[lcovelli]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

I also posted a reply on the Edmunds site. I have always liked Edmunds, but that posting is a big pile of poo.

I have learned at the San Jose International airport to never refuel at the same time a bus is refueling. I did that once and it took forever, but I didn't rip natural gas cars because I was stupid.

Johnny,
Would you happen to know when the Bus filling schedule is at SJC?
BTW I saw a Green GX in gilroy last week i wonder if that was your GX parked next to the CFN station on Monterey Rd.

[johnny 99]

Re: How long to refuel (at a commercial station)?

I haven't seen a refueling schedule for the buses. To be honest, I hardly ever see the buses refueling.

It probably wasn't me on Monterey Road in Gilroy. I work up in Plao ALto during the week,a nd usually don't drive my GX onthe weekends.