Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

[blueice]

For over the last twelve months, Center Point Energy, the sole provider of CNG, has maintain a price of $2.79 at its fueling station, despite the declining price of petrol....

Nine months ago, I spoke with the middle age man, at the Minneapolis location and expressed my concerns...

He informed me that he was responsible for the pricing and after a ten minute chat, I could see that it matter little to him...A year later, my opinion of him was correct, by the fact, that the CNG price remain actually the same as the day we spoke...

Hear, in the North Star State, there will never be a market for CNG vehicles as long as consumers are dependent upon a lame utility company, such as Center Point.

The attach picture was taken about three weeks ago...The sign at the left hand side, says it all...

Farewell:

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

y'know, there are options. you can fuel at home. You could build your own station and price it however you want. I have a feeling that there just aren't enough cars up there to warant any sort of price changes there. I'm sure most their customers are all fleets, and have some sort of special pricing schedule. it's just the nature of the geographical monopoly that center point has. they can charge whatever they want, and until there's a competetive force to bring the price down, it will stay that way.

[cnguser]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

What the posted price is may not always be the case. For example, the only publicly available CNG station (Pacific Pride) in my area posts $2.60 per GGE.
That's what you pay with a normal credit card.

But if you get one of their company charge cards, it is only $2.10 per GGE if paid in 30 days, or $2.06 per GGE if paid within 7 days. Not that that is a whole lot better, but somewhat.

[Amfuel]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

Blue ice

Don't get discouraged. Center Point is pretty anti-CNG. I had a booth at the green living expo in the state fair grounds. Center point had a CNG van on display, backed into the corner so even the fill recepacle was inacessible for display. I am posting the sign they had for promoting CNG. (if you call it promote)

I am working with several convenience store chains to get CNG into the area and throughout MN WI. There is, of course, the delay of product availability and is expected to be resolved Jan 1.

CNG is coming... It is 63cents gge at my house (July bill). That is about $2 cheaper than gas. We are in an educational phase and with the rise of oil people are asking the important questions again. The uncoupling from oil pricing is really making an impact. They are catching the winds of change and looking at the new incentives and the possible new incentives. (NAT GAS ACT)

[Highmarker]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

Blueice,

One thing I've learned is: Never say never.

Center Point could lower their prices or gasoline prices could go up to $4/gal again and Center Point keeps their prices the same. You never know what will happen.

[blueice]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

y'know, there are options. you can fuel at home. You could build your own station and price it however you want. I have a feeling that there just aren't enough cars up there to warant any sort of price changes there. I'm sure most their customers are all fleets, and have some sort of special pricing schedule. it's just the nature of the geographical monopoly that center point has. they can charge whatever they want, and until there's a competetive force to bring the price down, it will stay that way.

Your Fuzzyness, I could accept your logical arguments, however, they are a state monopoly...:

Their actions are counterproductive, to say the least..(

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

Your Fuzzyness, I could accept your logical arguments, however, they are a state monopoly...:

Their actions are counterproductive, to say the least..(

Not really sure what you mean by that.. yes, I know they are the only game in town (state)... that makes them a geographic monopoly. There are no government forces preventing anyone else from building their own public station, therefore it is NOT a government/state monopoly. The only thing preventing further competition, is the market.

[blueice]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

What the posted price is may not always be the case. For example, the only publicly available CNG station (Pacific Pride) in my area posts $2.60 per GGE.
That's what you pay with a normal credit card.

But if you get one of their company charge cards, it is only $2.10 per GGE if paid in 30 days, or $2.06 per GGE if paid within 7 days. Not that that is a whole lot better, but somewhat.

Cnguser, that would be helful if it were to apply to Center Point...

With the recent discovery of vast new fields there is no reason not to promote CNG vehicles to the general public...

Instead, the lame brains in DC offer the worthless Cash for Clunkers..

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

I dunno.. I think the cash for clunkers program was great... because I used it.. I got more money out of the program than I personally put in, so it's a win for me... besides, it's not that it goes against CNG, in fact, I'd wager to say its completely unrelated. Besides, the only reason cash for clunkers worked is because it got the cost of cars DOWN to where people could comfortably buy them at this time... even if they offered the same amount of discount to buy a CNG car (which, they DID, in that cash for clunkers works for GX's too), they would still end up being too expensive for most people. It isn't DC's job to promote anything.

[blueice]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

Blue ice

Don't get discouraged. Center Point is pretty anti-CNG. I had a booth at the green living expo in the state fair grounds. Center point had a CNG van on display, backed into the corner so even the fill recepacle was inacessible for display. I am posting the sign they had for promoting CNG. (if you call it promote)

I am working with several convenience store chains to get CNG into the area and throughout MN WI. There is, of course, the delay of product availability and is expected to be resolved Jan 1.

CNG is coming... It is 63cents gge at my house (July bill). That is about $2 cheaper than gas. We are in an educational phase and with the rise of oil people are asking the important questions again. The uncoupling from oil pricing is really making an impact. They are catching the winds of change and looking at the new incentives and the possible new incentives. (NAT GAS ACT)

Mr Amfuel, it is capitalists like you, that will helf get CNG to the needed source...I wish you well and much success; as well a fat paycheck.

Thank you for the picture, which is more proof that Center Point does not take CNG, serious..

It is beyond me, that CNG is not a centerpoint in our national energy policy...

[blueice]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

I dunno.. I think the cash for clunkers program was great... because I used it.. I got more money out of the program than I personally put in, so it's a win for me... besides, it's not that it goes against CNG, in fact, I'd wager to say its completely unrelated. Besides, the only reason cash for clunkers worked is because it got the cost of cars DOWN to where people could comfortably buy them at this time...

Sorry, as most government programs this too was a clunking failure...Yes, the participants were winners, however, the nation as a whole was not...

Fuzzy, how many CNG stations could have been built with that $2.9 billion - 1,000, 2,000 or 3,000?

Now many auto buyers will be waiting for CFC II...

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

I don't think you could throw enough money at ceratin areas of the country to build more CNG stations. Regardless of grants, certain areas will just be more apt to private CNG use than others. Areas with limited (per capita) commuting simply won't have the average overall payoff in a reasonable amount of time to warrant spending the capital there. The areas that ARE well suited for mass CNG use, are pretty much on the way there already.

Frankly, if you want more stations, FIRST find the demand for them. Fleets and large vehicles are still the prime mover for CNG, and will be for a LONG time. It really won't mean much to the average american until gas is $6/gal+ (which, I believe to be the true value of gasoline - meaning the point at which a major portion of the population would voluntarily switch to an alternative).

And another thing.. I never said CARS was a good program, or good for the nation. I simly said it was a win for ME. If the government is going to be spending my money on crap like this, you damn well better bet I'm gonna get my share out of it (and in tis case, a lot MORE than my share).

[blueice]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

Blueice,

One thing I've learned is: Never say never.

Center Point could lower their prices or gasoline prices could go up to $4/gal again and Center Point keeps their prices the same. You never know what will happen.

You are correct, Highmarker...It will, however, necessitate leaving the of Minnesota.

I don't think you could throw enough money at ceratin areas of the country to build more CNG stations. Regardless of grants, certain areas will just be more apt to private CNG use than others. The areas that ARE well suited for mass CNG use, are pretty much on the way there already.

Your Fuzzyness, I have driven extensively in the Midwest and I just do not find any CGN stations...Take the St Paul & Mpls metro, only a single station in the 15th largest market...

Frankly, if you want more stations, FIRST find the demand for them. Fleets and large vehicles are still the prime mover for CNG, and will be for a LONG time. It really won't mean much to the average american until gas is $6/gal+ (which, I believe to be the true value of gasoline - meaning the point at which a major portion of the population would voluntarily switch to an alternative).

If CNG is not competitively priced or there is no goo shortage there will never be a market...BTW, there is most likely not a chance that the majority of vehicles will be propelled by CNG...

And another thing.. I never said CARS was a good program, or good for the nation. I simly said it was a win for ME. If the government is going to be spending my money on crap like this, you damn well better bet I'm gonna get my share out of it (and in tis case, a lot MORE than my share).

I wonder how many CNG vehicles were bought in the CFC program?

[Larryect]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

blueice;30626

I wonder how many CNG vehicles were bought in the CFC program?

Some I am sure. I almost lost the one I was negotiating on to another buyer the day before. Alas, his clunker had a salvage title, so the dealer could not take it and he decided not to purchase...



.

[Amfuel]

Re: Why I Will Never Own A CNG Vehicle.

Blueice,

Don't be so negative!

I have a happy customer that has a 09 GX and commutes 50 miles one way up to the Centerpoint station area but has a Phill at home and doesn't need their fuel. It works good for them. They are paying $0.631 gge (xcel energy July 09)and it looks like CNG prices are dropping. I expect into the low to mid $.50gge range for the winter at least.

The ROI is there in our area. $2k tax credit on the Phill and 50% to 80% differential recovery investment credit on the vehicles. Follow the NAT GAS ACT in September for what is coming.

Contact your FM dealer at [email protected] (that's me)