I need help to save my car!!

[Mshepcomm]

Hi everyone,

My 1999 CNG Crown Victoria P71 was hit and run 2 weeks ago, and I find myself trying to educate my insurance company, Auto Club So Cal.

As far as they are concerned, it is just another Crown Vic and worth about $3,000 retail. Realistic comps are near impossible to come by since they are not generally sold through the normal channels and none of the "Comp" services even recognize that CNG exists as an option, since they were sold via fleet only.

If anyone has recent (semi-recent) sale price data, or any data on how difficult they are to find, related to CNG Crown Victoria P71's, I could sure use your help in educating the uninformed insurance company paper pushers.

I am in Southern California, but anything you have anywhere in North America would be helpful.
Also, If you own one how long did you have to hunt to find your car?

Thanks,
Mark

[Lakewood90712]

Re: I need help to save my car!!

Mark: Contact Best Auto in Corona . Thay have sold a lot in the past few years, and specialize in used cng vehicles.

Now about The Interinsurance Exchange of Auto Club, So Cal.

The standard way they operate on claims. First offer, lowball. If you complain, they tell you to get comps. When you submit the comps, they reject all of them. It is intended to wear you out. And because it is your policy in this case , unless you can prove bad faith , you prob. have to go to arbritration ( Check the fine print in the policy. )

It's much easier with a normal situation of other vehicle at fault and insurred, then you just file suit against the vehicle owner , and Auto Club may have to justify the B.S. in front of a Judge. Insurance companies just don't like a level playing field.

[cowboy]

Re: I need help to save my car!!

iinsurance is to make you whole the only hope you have is to not let them wear you down buy a 100 doller car and keep saying no no no and do not cash any check that they may give you as this can close your case be ready for a long hard battle call the insurance commision and just keep hammering also tell them you will sue them for the added cost of burning gasoline demand a rental car till they settle do anything that costs them more money till they pay call the insurance co not the agent and go through there all the phone # you can get from there phone system also if the last 4#s are 0000 try 0001 than 0002 and so on sooner or later you will get some one who will want to know just how you got there # that i the person you want as poo runs down hill if you have a friend that is a lawer have him give a call and tell them how much money he is going to cost them good luck

[alliedmotors]

Re: I need help to save my car!!

Miles? I don't think you're going to be pleased with the latest sales results. You can find these at auctions for $3000 or less at the moment. Unless it was low miles, perfect condition, I'd squeeze out closer to $4k and take it.

[mikejacobs]

Re: I need help to save my car!!

Went online did a search on nada for base model with 120 k mile s

and found another but its a 2002 on a dealers website

[mikejacobs]

Re: I need help to save my car!!

Ok this may cheer you up

[Wellarmed]

Re: I need help to save my car!!

Sorry to hear that your Crown Vic has been deemed totaled. I look forward to the day that a non profit insurance cooperative is created to suck the wind out of their sails. I despise all insurance companies and their lobbiest equally and find this industry a significant threat to individual freedom. I do know a guy that resells crown vics in Riverside CA, and they generally go for between 3500 and 4000. They seem to be well cared for, and I found his number in the CNG Forum. Cowboy gave you some very good advice, but I will add that if you purchase another CNG Vic try to find one of the same year make and model so you can buy back and part out your wrecked car for parts. You will save thousands over the operating life of your car if you have these parts available. Good luck

[Tax Counsel]

Re: I need help to save my car!!

Try Edmunds.com That site recognizes the CNG option in their "True Market Value" appraisal program for 1999 Crown Vic's. According to Edmunds, the CNG option for Los Angeles will add:

Trade in $630
Private Party $831
Dealer Retail $1,197

I know that this isn't the premium that you're looking for but it's something. Keep in mind that the $3k they're offering + $1k for the CNG option = +/- $4K, which is in line with what the others are suggesting is in the range of value.

TC

PS: My CNG car is also a 1999 Crown Vic . . .

[echamberlain]

Re: I need help to save my car!!

Mark,

Fortunately you are in California and the law is pretty specific. The insurance company has to use the average of comparable vehicles sold or for sale in your local market area in the past 90-days.

Typically, the insurance companies use third-parties that supposedly have comps, but these third-party companies are constantly getting in trouble with the Insurance Commissioner for low-balling comps.

The claims adjusters are typically unwilling to do their own research, so if you can show that their comps are invalid (don't use the same motive power), and can provide your own comps (fax them the highest prices you can find from eBay/Craigslist), you can get them to use your comps.

There has got to be a lot of ex-fleet vehicles moving around. You should be able to find ex-taxis/cop cars for comps. Check with local dealers to find out what the vehicles sold for in the last 90-days.

When my GMC Jimmy got totaled, the insurance company comps tried to use two comps from Redding and Modesto, I live in Oakland. They first claimed that the local market area means anywhere in the state. But, the comp data they sent me said that those comps were not in my local market area (that particular company divided the state into 18 market areas). I asked the adjuster if that meant his company charged the same rate to insure a car in Oakland as in Redding.

Then he claimed that there weren't any local comps in my area. I found four of the highest dealer priced ads I could, all within 20 miles and sent them to him. My comps were $2000 higher than his.

He then tried to average all six comps together. I told him no, his comps weren't comps, because they weren't in the local market area.

He finally agreed to use my four comps.

This process took a month, all the while I had rented a Jeep (it was a like vehicle). So that cost them an extra $1200, for their delaying and screwing around.

[Mshepcomm]

Re: I need help to save my car!! IT WAS SAVED!!!

Thanks to everyone who posted or PM'd me about this post.
I could not have succeeded with your help!!!

As of Noon today, I won and the CNG Community won.

Short synopsis.....Today was Day 25 since the accident.

Adjuster looked at my cap at Body Shop on Day 9, deemed it a "Total Loss" $4800 damage on a car worth only $2975 (Gasoline car value)

Comps First try, they used a computer based appraisal service called Auto Source, no human involvement: came up with 2 1999 Gasoline CVPI and offered my $3300. I called the 2 listed used car dealers that gave quotes, neither even knew what CNG was. Called ACSC Claims, and invalidated the appraisal.

Day 24... Received a copy of appraisal second try, offered $4400 based on 2 listed CVPI CNG. First car from CNG Utah website @ $6500, second from a dealer in Cincinnati, OH, @ $2995. Called dealer in Ohio, asked them why so cheap, they said they had 7 CVPI's and needed to move them. Got their website and looked at the $2995 car. VIN number code said it was Gasoline, not CNG. Appraisal #2 was then invalidated. Called Appraiser directly and talked to him, spent 20 minutes on phone educating him and told him how to decode a CVPI VIN to make sure it is CNG.

(Letter after P71 needs to be a 9 not W ie: 2FAFP719XX123456)

Day 25... He resubmitted new appraisal this AM with 2 comps from UTAH dealers (so much for local comps) vehicle came back worth over $5500 and ACSC Insurance OK'd the repairs and agreed it was not a total loss.

I had already given my Body Shop an OK to repair, so I pick up my car tomorrow, instead of now waiting 2 more weeks for it to be fixed.

The tricks are 1) be an informed customer, 2) stay on top of them regularly, but not a pest, 3) get in touch with the department lead supervisor and politely let them know that you are frustrated, not angry, and will help them as much as you can, 4) do your own research and fax or e-mail copies of all your research to the supervisor and appraiser, 5) Try not to go insane in a rental without your Carpool sticker for a month.


If anyone needs my details, ie: the Appraisal company in LA that actually listened to me and admitted the error that was made, contacts at Auto Club, etc, just PM me.

Thank you everyone, Mark

[jblue]

Re: I need help to save my car!! IT WAS SAVED!!!

If anyone needs my details, ie: the Appraisal company in LA that actually listened to me and admitted the error that was made, contacts at Auto Club, etc, just PM me.

Good job on making sure the VIN matched a CNG engine!



Why not just post the information for historical purposes? It might help someone down the road with quick information instead of waiting on a response to a PM that may or may not come for what ever reasons. Life happens ..

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: I need help to save my car!! IT WAS SAVED!!!

just as an FYI on this, I recently clunker'd my 97 vic, because it would not be possible to sell it for $3000. Their real world value of the CNG vics is dropping rapidly, as the tanks are near expiration. There's really very little life left in them for the fuel savings to return on any extra investment, so there's no payoff to encourage someone to buy one. Especially since it would usually mean going to a car that is in a worse state than any other comparable used car (most these CV's have lived a hard life). I didn't really like junking the thing, but that's how the market is right now. Besides, it served its purpose, running 300k+mile of clean burning CNG, and saving me and two previous owners considerable time and money.. but it was definitely approaching end of life.