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Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

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  • #31
    Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

    Or, get in good with the local fleet operating guys.. most of them have some sort of fueling 'rescue vehicle' for their fleets...
    1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
    2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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    • #32
      Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

      Originally posted by Wellarmed View Post
      OEM CNG vehicles should have had a dual fuel option (preferebly Propane)...

      Carrying loose bottles of compressed gases of any type, in a vehicle without identifying placards could prove to be a death sentence for any first responder who arrives on the scene of a vehicle accident.
      Some OEM CNG vehicles were dual fuel, but always gasoline and something else, not 2 alt fuels.

      I don't agree about 'loose bottles' of compressed gas being so dangerous. It's not a good idea to carry it around all the time, but people transported propane bottles around inside their cars/campers for decades which was technically illegal until they changed the law a few years ago.

      Once when my wife ran out I 'rescued' her with my small, portable CNG bottle. It was enough to get her to the nearest pump. Otherwise the AAA has to tow you to a station (why AAA Plus is important for alt fuel vehicles).
      02 GX
      01 GX
      03 Crown Vic
      06 GX
      Home Fueler

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      • #33
        Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

        OK Freedml, you got me on that one. Which factory were "dual fuel"?

        As far as Propane goes, in the 40 plus years I've been involved withe RV, the Lp bottles are tied down and don't move, they are basically safe (as can be). I definately agree with, those who put them in the trunk or elseware in vehicle when they take them to have them fill are dangerous; they should be kept rolling around in the vehicle. An old tire work real good as a minimum.

        Take Care

        Larrycng

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        • #34
          Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

          Cavalier and Contour.
          02 GX
          01 GX
          03 Crown Vic
          06 GX
          Home Fueler

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          • #35
            Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

            In Europe we have lots of dual fuel vehicles. There are no monofuel CNG vehicles (the GX isn't sold in Europe for some reason).
            If designing a dual fuel vehicle, it would be a lot easier to use LGP as backup rather than gasoline. When the CNG pressure drops, it's much easier to mix in LPG than to switch to a gasoline mode. In Europe LPG refueling is sufficiently available.

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            • #36
              Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

              LPG fueling is readily available in most of the states as well.. it just costs more than gasoline in most cases... Best bi-fuel's in the states are definitely CNG/gasoline... simply because it gives the cost advantage of CNG when available, and the fallback reliability/availability of gasoline. The reason there weren't more bi-fuel vehicles back when the OEMs were making them is because they werebeing marketed towards fleets, who mostly had limited per-day routes, and on-site fueling. For them, there were no disadvantages of dedicated CNG, and the government incentives were higher for dedicated. Now, though, if CNG is going to push into the mainstream market, a GOOD bi-fuel is what would be required.
              1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
              2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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              • #37
                Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

                The problem with Propane is that most Propane sellers are only open during daytime business hours -- RV suppliers, Propane specialists, Rental yards. And, the price of Propane is not very competitive and varies wildly even within blocks of other sellers (hmm, just like NG). Yes, you can easily run Propane in a NG engine, but the only application I know of available to consumers is 'tri-fuel' electric generators -- gasoline, NG and Propane.
                02 GX
                01 GX
                03 Crown Vic
                06 GX
                Home Fueler

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                • #38
                  Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

                  Originally posted by freedml View Post
                  Cavalier and Contour.
                  Freedml,

                  What Larrycng was referring to was "dual-fuel" not "bi-fuel". There is a difference.

                  Bi-Fuel - Capable of running two separate fuels (Not simultaneously).
                  Dual-Fuel - Running two separate fuels simultaneously.

                  Cavaliers and Contours are bi-fuel. Are there any dual-fuel OEMs?
                  Jared.
                  Mountain Green, Utah
                  2003 CNG Cavalier
                  2003 CNG Silverado 2500HD

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                  • #39
                    Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

                    The original 'dual fuel' quote was from Wellarmed and I believe he meant 'bi-fuel.'
                    02 GX
                    01 GX
                    03 Crown Vic
                    06 GX
                    Home Fueler

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                    • #40
                      Ah, the nomeclature

                      EPA actually uses the reverse: Dual-fuel is a switched system, Bi-fuel is a blended system.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

                        Guess I started that one, but you caught the point Highmarker.

                        John is exactly right EPA, CARB and California Bureau of Auto Repair (SMOG) do the same thing, reverse the useage of dual fuel and bi-fuel as is stated in FMVSS 303 (49CFR 571.303) and they don't care. I have brought the point to the attention of both CARB and BAR

                        The only "dual fuel" vehicles are generally heavy duty, diesel, vehicles. They are using a lot of them in Australia; Clean air power and Omnitek are two of the systems. Just for the record there are some light duty diesel/LPG units around, like Bully Dog.

                        Probably time for this discussion again.

                        And I do run Bi-fuel propane.

                        Larrycng

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                        • #42
                          Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

                          Why do you run CNG/Propane? Isn't the Propane a lot more expensive? Wouldn't the vehicle run on CNG alone?
                          02 GX
                          01 GX
                          03 Crown Vic
                          06 GX
                          Home Fueler

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                          • #43
                            Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

                            Or did you mean Diesel/Propane?
                            02 GX
                            01 GX
                            03 Crown Vic
                            06 GX
                            Home Fueler

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                            • #44
                              Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

                              My truck is gasoline or propane, whichever is cheapest. I would be paying about $1.65 per gal of Lp if I had it up here in Birch Bay, Wa instead of $2.65 per gal of gasoline. The LP is about 62% of gasoline which is a considerable savings; a net savings of 13%

                              The propane injection (like Bully Dog and other) is somewhat a dual fuel system it that the vehicle under will run both on diesel and LP usually under higher throttle settings. The system will idle on diesel and both fuel when designed to.

                              Most heavy duty diesel/cng dual fuel systems will idle on diesel and as the throttle is advanced cng is added up to around 80% to around 90%+. The Diesel fuel, which is timed injection is the "spark plug" that ignites the cng/air mixture that is in the cylinder and just a little lean to ignite on it own. When the system run out of CNG the go back to straight diesel. When they run out of diesel -- you're sol.

                              There is a reduction on engine noise, but more important a significant on exhaust emissions and particulate matter.

                              That is the simple version

                              Larrycng

                              PS. this thread is sure drifting
                              Last edited by larrycng; 07-07-2009, 09:58 PM. Reason: additional comment

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                              • #45
                                Re: Does anyone make a portable CNG tank to use if you run empty?

                                Originally posted by Highmarker View Post
                                Are there any dual-fuel OEMs?
                                No, never heared of anyone making them.

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