Next Generation NGV coming soon!

[Kevin Fern]

AFVTech has finished the proto-type vehicle development of the Next Generation Natural Gas vehicle. In the next few coming months, testing will be completed on a production vehicle that can be introduced to private customers. Until recently, the NGV market had always been geared toward fleets (states, city, etc.), now with tax incentives and the economic benefits available, private individuals have never been more able to reap the benefits of NGV ownership. We (AFVTech) have always believed that NGV's need to get into the hands of the general public for wide spread use. We have just begun the market analysis needed for private introduction. Perhaps the readers of this forum could spend a moment and give us some feedback about their use and general expectations of NGV's, by these vehicles by answering the following questions.

1. What type of vehicle would best suit your needs, space, and passengers?
2. What do you feel is a realistic driving range between refueling?
3. Is the size and capacity of the trunk important?
4. How far can you justify traveling for service and repairs?
5. How important is fuel economy?
6. How much would you expect to pay for an NGV?

Any feedback would be sincerely appreciated, Thanks!!

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me at the following:

[jetboatjohnny]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

For me, I would need something similar to a Smart car, 2 seater, small trunk.
The range should be at least 300 miles highway.
Service no more than 50 miles away.
Fuel economy of at least 40 mpg.
Going to a CNG powered diesel or turbo diesel could easily push a small car to upwards of 60 mpg.
I would like to pay less than 10k but we know that wont happen!
I read the flyer and went to your site, can you tell me a ballpark price on the cars?
I will be a tough sell if you cant price them less than a Honda Civic GX.
J

[golfpro]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

Thanks everyone, I just would like to add my input. I am 63 years old and have always looked towards low energy and economical cars. Right now cng is the only way to go. I have a Cavelier and a Ford minivan cng. I save around $ 3.000.00 a year on fuel only becouse I don't drive a lot or it would be a lot more, plus I only have to change the oil once year. Cng here in my area is 78 cents a gge. I do have problems getting parts when something breaks. Does anybody have an ironclad parts supply line?

[John Mitton]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

Here is the mantra:
Spend green to show-off green.
But do it in comfort & style.

OK, this next sentence may be complete heresy so don't everyone flame me for this...
What we really need are quality bi-fuel NGV's.

Let's face it, many buyers of the new GX today are well-heeled conservationists who are not going to reap a dime of the federal tax credit for dedicated alternative fuel vehicles due to the Alternative Minimum Tax. They buy it to be greener than their neighbor who is so proud of his uncomfortable Prius, with the added benefit of showing-off to the neighbor how he can stick it to the Man by not buying imported fuel, etc.

So why not introduce a decked-out bi-fuel Cadillac Escalade for the soccer mom or perhaps one of the nicer Lexus models, etc? So to your questions:

1. As above, 5 or more passenger "green" soccer mom vehicle.
2. Not applicable if bi-fuel. Fill with CNG as far as you can go, then switch!
3. Trunk space not so critical. Just provide some space behind the back seat row above the CNG tank.
4. Most repairs should be available at the local dealer, excepting CNG fueling system issues, right?
5. Fuel economy is not so important, assuming CNG is already cheaper than gasoline in most areas (especially here in Utah, or in Oklahoma, etc.)
6. I would expect $5k - $10k more for the NGV model.

Another big seller would be NGV trucks and delivery vans for small fleets (electrical, plumbing contractors, etc.).

[cngmike]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

The 2 vehicles that people use to say they wanted was a mini van and something along the line of a accord or entry lexus infinity or acura.

As for duel fuel if you can't drive it in the carpool lane as a single occupant it would soon be a no sale. but personally a duel fuel mini van would be the ticket for me.

[golfpro]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

Yup, I agree 100% My other cars are a Lincoln town car and a Grand caravan. Bigger is Better in America!!!

[filmit]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

I need a bi-fuel crew cab 4x4 with lots of tank capacity. I think large suv's and mini vans would do extremely well also, here in Utah

[Kevin Fern]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

Hi, Well we wont have final pricing until all tests and certification is completed, but we are looking at starting the 2008 Pontiac G6 1SV @$26,500.00, the 08 Saturn Aura and the 08 Chevy Malibu pricing will be a little more, based on the vehicles MSRP. Preliminary emissions data shows us that it has achieved below SULEV emissions, I can't put an estimate on tax incentives yet, until testing is finished, but I'm hoping that it will be able to get the $4,000.00 federal + whatever the states offer. In the case of Utah purchasers and other states (except CA) that have decent incentives, it will be competitive to what a gasoline version MSRP is. Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!, Kevin

[freedml]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

Does that mean that none of your cars will be available in California? I would think that would be a big percentage of the market for CNG/Bifuel cars.

Everyone always asks me, what about a CNG Hybrid (either dedicated CNG or Bifuel)?

[sixb]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

For us, we'd like a large 4X4 bi-fuel that can seat 6. Better than 20 mpg would be nice for a family of 6. We have so few options. A range of greater than 300 miles would be great. I saw a new Chevy 4x4 crew cab, long bed, CNG the other day on I-15 here in Salt Lake City. That would be a lot better than my f150 cng std cab, but I do I do love my f150, the amount we are saving from our perivious diesel bill, makes the truck payment. We curently drive an 04 Durango (paid for), 02 Dodge 3500 4x4 w/cummins turbo diesel 6spd. only to pull the horse trailer now ( paid for), and our new to us 01 F150 that will be paid for in 3 years.

[Kevin Fern]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

We do plan to market in California, we will work on CARB certification, once our EPA testing is scheduled, completed and the related paperwork has been finished. I estimate, barring any problems, that we will be able to start offering individuals and fleets the ability to order within 2 months, Thanks

[moore101]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

1. What type of vehicle would best suit your needs, space, and passengers?
Mid-size 4 or 5 door sedan.
2. What do you feel is a realistic driving range between refueling?
300-350 Max
3. Is the size and capacity of the trunk important?
Not as much as the range but 50% of original space would be nice
4. How far can you justify traveling for service and repairs?
30-50 miles
5. How important is fuel economy?
Should be 90-95% of a normal gasoline powered car and be able to drive 100 miles per day and have a Phill unit be able to fully refill it so ~30MPG
6. How much would you expect to pay for an NGV?
Up to 10% more than normal gasoline car after rebates and incentives

I currently own a 2000 CNG Camry and it meets pretty much all of my requirements. The only issue is Toyota foolishly abandoned CNG vehicle development in the US after only 3 years. The only negatives with the Camry is it's 7 years old now and parts and service are only going to get rarer and more expensive.

These new GM vehicles converted to CNG sound very promising. How closely is your company working with GM on developing these cars? Will you or GM be honoring the factory warranty's?

[jdelect]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

I own an 07 honda gx the out the door price was around $27,000 a little high but I am sick of the oil companies making billions off our backs and buying politians. The only problem is that the tank is too small and there is not enough stations yet. There are three things that need to be done: 1 a larger fuel tank for more range or a list so consumers like me can get this done. 2 more fuel stations so when 1 goes down you can drive to another without running out of fuel. And last but not least 3 I watch the honda commercial about them being the green car company of the year. But when they show there models they only show the hybrid not the gx ngv. people don't know they are out there. Is it the oil companies using there influance to block the advertising of cng. If so we need to get the word out and I think sales will rise!!!!

[bluedevil]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

1. I would definitly like a coupe, since my GX is purely a commuter vehicle. Two to four passengers would do.

2. Fuel tank capacity has to be in the 300 miles range atleast.

3. Enough to still stop by at Costco once in a while, the trunk space on the
GX is ridiculous...why even call it a trunk, why not "master glove box".

4. 30 - 40 miles

5. Very important, at least 30 mpg.

6. It all depends on the vehicle specifics, eg; available options, mpg, engine size ect... but I would not pay a premium over $2500.00, after incentives.

[Taildragger1]

Re: Next Generation NGV coming soon!

Thanks for your work Kevin.

Most of the range issues wouldn't be important as long as it'a bi-fuel. It scares me when the wife is out at night in her dedicated Honda GX with questionable range.

Now here's one for you.

A CNG Corvette!!! It's the only way my wife would let me get one and, frankly, I aggree.

Next choice would be a pick up (wish Honda would make a Ridgeline).

Good luck

Lance