Cold Weather Starts

[fjsbws]

I was all set to purchase a Honda GX, yet after reading about potential problems with cold weather starts, I am having my doubts. I often go to Randolph, UT (coldest place in the state) where at times we have seen 40-50 degrees below. The car will be in a detached garage, though unheated. As has been mentioned by a Park City resident on this forum, it is a dry cold and does not seem to be nearly as bad as the thermometer will indicate. However, am I fooling myself to think that I will be able to start the car in winter? Thanks
Frank

[John Mitton]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

Welcome to CNGchat!

I will let others chime in regarding the cold start issue, and would alert you to the following:

1. There is no public fast-fill CNG station in Randolph. Since it is 75 miles from Davis County you have just enough range in a GX to go out there and back without installing an extra tank in the trunk, or perhaps putting in a Phill or other Fuelmaker slow-fill device at the location you will be visiting (hopefully overnight).

2. CNG vehicles should not be fast-filled below zero centigrade without risking damage to the system.

Let us know your decision!

[Curtis]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

Heck, at 50 below.... nothing will start... not even me!
Drivers in those regions commonly make use of engine heaters. I would think that this would resolve any cold start issues. Honda even sells them as a factory option on the Civic.

[fjsbws]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

Thanks John and Curtis:
I go to Randolph via Evanston (32 miles from Randolph) and Questar tells me they have a fill station there. On the second comment from Curtis re the engine heater, I thought of that but I did not think that I had any choice but color from Honda on the GX - am I wrong? Pls advise. Can Ron at Garff downtown special order a vehicle with that option? Thanks to you both for the quick response.
Frank

[Curtis]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

I'd give Ron a call and ask him. I don't sell many here in LA. If he says no, just get one at Pepboys or just about any auto parts store. If all else fails, just throw an old electric blanket under the hood at night...lol. Good luck with it. You'll find that most all of the options for the Civic Sedan will fit the GX. There are a few electronic exceptions, but only a few.

[John Mitton]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

Oh, that is right... Evanston will work fine for you so long as it is reliable and the hours are reasonable. I have not tried it, but my brother-in-law recently filled there. If you ever decide to head further to Rock Springs, make sure you print a Google or Mapquest map ahead of time as my brother-in-law said he drove all over the place trying to find it

The engine heater is also a great idea. However you still have the separate issue of fast-filling the CNG system under extreme cold conditions as it can damage the tubing / piping. Please ask Questar what their policy is regarding dispensing CNG at their fast-fill stations when the ambient temp. is under zero centigrade? You will find a link to their contact info in the Utah/WY forum top thread.

Oh, and if you tell Ron that John at CNGchat sent you we can go out for lunch sometime on him

[Highmarker]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

Welcome to CNGchat!

2. CNG vehicles should not be fast-filled below zero centigrade without risking damage to the system.

Let us know your decision!

John,

I haven't heard anything on no fast-filling below freezing. Please enlighten me. Thanks.

[fjsbws]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

Just spoke with Gordon Larson at Questar per your advice. He has never heard of any problems with cold fill-ups. Their trucks fill in cold Wyoming all the time. There are some problems with propane, but he said he has never heard of any issues with CNG. Has Honda cautioned against it?

[John Mitton]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

Yes, it is in the GX manual supplement, and also on the filling nozzle door. I would tell you what it says but am out of town. Anyone out there want to take a look at their GX manual or the fill door and post what it says?

[Curtis]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

Just spoke with Gordon Larson at Questar per your advice. He has never heard of any problems with cold fill-ups. Their trucks fill in cold Wyoming all the time. There are some problems with propane, but he said he has never heard of any issues with CNG. Has Honda cautioned against it?

I can find nothing from Honda warning against it.

[John Mitton]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

Look inside the fueling door.

[Curtis]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

I just read through the 2006 supplement. Nothing mentioned about refueling below certain temps, only that ambient temp effects overall filling results.

[John Mitton]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

I found it on p.7 of the 2006 GX manual supplement, scanned and included it as a file on this post.. Honda warns not to fast-fill below -4F (-20C).

I think you are going to be OK filling in Evanston, as 7 degrees F is the lowest mean temperature according to this web site:

http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMONtmnt.pl?wyevan

[Curtis]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

I ran across this little tid-bit that might explain some problems with cold starts or even hard starts. The dryer is an important service item on commercial stations, as explained below.

"Under certain gas temperatures and/or humidity levels, some CNG fueling equipment that does not properly dry the fuel will allow ice crystals to form in the fuel. This can restrict flow in the fuel regulator leading to stalling or prevention of engine start-up."

[turbocohen]

Re: Cold Weather Starts

Curtis, another problem is that the aerosols and sulphur, etc that accumulate in injecotrs and solenoids impair their normal operation.. The keihin injector was or still is very susceptible to contamination related intermittent failure and that was one of the reasons i pushed for an ~8 bar absolute fuel pressure standard..

turbo

[motoboy]

Was this on the 2012-2015 models, if I'm reading it correctly the fuel rail pressure on my 2009 is ~40psig so 3.75 Bar absolute? What is the thought that injectors having to open less/lower band pulse width due to high rail pressure makes them last longer?